What type of test am I being given?

[Gotnochoice]

As a convicted offender and new member who has already had 2 polygraphs, one for "full disclosure" and one for "maintenance", I am wondering which type of tests have been administered to me. Maybe it's me but they don't seem to fit any of the descriptions listed in "The Lie..." Their is a short period of time after being connected to the equipment that the polygrapher says is to pick up "normal" patterns and then he begins asking the questions, usually 10, beginning with "Do you intend to lie on this polygraph?". The second question is "Have you lied in group or to your probation officer?". Each question appears to be relevant after that asking directly about behaviors, set rules and fantasies. I have had no problems with the results aside from a "slight deviation" on the fantasy question which I attributed to them wanting something to bust my stones about. The questions are repeated three times and then there is the obligatory post test interrogation. Anyway, I have no problem admitting my past behavior and therefore don't lie on the test but I am against the inexact science and double standards that it represents. I have no choice about it for the next few years, but I would like to know as much about the "practice" as possible. Anyone have any thoughts on the type of test that I'm being given?

[palerider]

gotno,
why don't you first share what the exact nature of your crime was with us so that members on this board can better explain what sort of testing you will be administered. Remember, we are quite used to people lying and saying that they were 19 and had sex with a 15 year old beauty-----or that they were "drunk" and don't remember. It is ok to be honest here----your identity is secure. Tell us how many pror- to- conviction victims you had, and what sorts of precise activities with the others were enacted. The average number of prior victims for offenders is 18. Boys? Girls? Statistically both I would imagine. Are you still strugglng with those fantasies mixed in with the normal fantasies? Tell the administrator and us all. Your risk level and location has much to do with the sort of test formats----and we cannot assess such without the real truth.
I sense you are brave and honest, prove me right.

[George W. Maschke]

palerider,

Are you saying that depending on the nature of the crime, a different polygraph technique (for example, CQT vs. R/I) might be used in a post-conviction polygraph program? I sense you are neither brave nor honest. Prove me wrong.

[George W. Maschke]

Gotnochoice,

The question, "Do you intend to lie on this polygraph?" is commonly used as a sacrifice relevant question in various versions of the Control Question Test.

The question, "Have you lied in group or to your probation officer?" is almost certainly a probable-lie "control" question.

I am aware of no standard polygraph technique that would consist solely of these two questions followed by a series of all relevant questions. Might you have mistaken one or more probable-lie control questions for relevant questions?

[palerider]

Tell us all what you did gotno, then I'll offer my professional polygraph experience advice. Send me a private message if you want.

Gotno, here is an example of what you can expect. I want you to read the following short bit of garble:


bbdee.';ehi c nc

ok. That was my 3 year old saying "hi" to the man on the computer. He said hi to you gotno!

Now, you have had contact with a child. He is sitting on my lap. You will most certainly be tested on secret contact with children. Say "bye" to the computer man.

bvy

[George W. Maschke]

Palerider,

You don't need to know anything about Gotnochoice's crime in order to comment on the polygraph format (s)he encountered.

Gotnochoice,

It appears that palerider (a polygraph examiner) has no interest in answering your question, but rather is very interested in obtaining enough information from you that you could be identified.

[palerider]

I have enough information now. I know that all of his polygraph questions are relevant. I know that he has used a computer for sexual reasons. I know that he has now had secret contact with a child. I know that he is located in one of 3 states. I know that he is lying to his agent/officer, treatment provider, and most importantly to himself. I know that he victimized a female child. I know that he is addicted to sex---in many varieties. I know that he is intelligent but socially akward (like George). I know that his future attempts at countermeasures will be folly, and his subsequent tests will reflect such. I know that he is addicted to the same behaviors which got him in trouble in the first place----utilizing the "dirty dozen" criminal thinking errors----one of which is "criminal uniqueness"----in that he believes that he is an exception to rules and laws-----since he "feels" so complicated and thoughtful. I know that he believes he is a victim of the criminal justice system----because he "gotnochoice" rather than having a choice of not being monitored. I know that he has family members/friends who support him and believe that he wouldn't harm a fly, but they aren't aware of his core demons. I know that he probably thinks that the adage "virtue is insufficient temptation" doesn't apply to him, as he is so "in control" of himself.


He is smart, but he believes that only clinical depression should be his punishment. He regrets what he did, and yet he still masturbates to thoughts of his or other victims inexplicably. He lies, grooms, and feels sorry for himself. I know you. Get off the goddamn internet. Tell your therapist about this excursion.

If he doesn't fit to a tee the above, than 99% ain't bad.

[George W. Maschke]

I have enough information now. I know that all of his polygraph questions are relevant....

How do you know this? Can you cite any references that document such a technique?

[palerider]

George, in order for you to get a preliminary grasp of the subject of monitoring sex offenders with polygraph, you should first do some research. Try here;     http://www.amazon.com/Predators-Pedophiles-Offenders-Ourselves-Children/dp/0465071732/ref=sr_1_2/102-0281108-4837744?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185540764&sr=1-2

spend a few bucks, and then we'll talk.

[George W. Maschke]

palerider,

Salter's book provides no specific information about polygraph techniques. (I used Amazon's "Search Inside" feature.)

Please answer the questions I put to you. How do you purport to know that all the questions in Gotnochoice's polygraph examination were relevant? Of the two (s)he cited, only one was relevant, and it was a sacrifice relevant question. Again, please cite any reference documenting a polygraph technique that consists entirely of relevant questions.

[Kalex]

palerider,

Salter's book provides no specific information about polygraph techniques. (I used Amazon's "Search Inside" feature.)

Please answer the questions I put to you. How do you purport to know that all the questions in Gotnochoice's polygraph examination were relevant? Of the two (s)he cited, only one was relevant, and it was a sacrifice relevant question. Again, please cite any reference documenting a polygraph technique that consists entirely of relevant questions.

To The Administrator:

Why do you assume that the question "Have you lied to anyone in group or to your Probation Officer"
is a Control Question (probable lie) ?
It is a POORLY constructed question, but if a p/g examiner uses such a poor question he could be using it
as a Relevant Question.

GotNo admits that he is a convicted offender. Nowhere in his post does he proclaim to be innocent or
wrongfully convicted.

I think that to offer any advice to sexual offenders (on how to beat any test devised to detect bestial behaviour) is deplorable, and you should rethink your position in similar situations.

I hope that GotNo fails his test, goes to jail and gets it good.

[palerider]

Again, please research the the subject matter and target issues before attempting to ask your question. You are clearly illprepared to discuss both the nuances and the larger issues involved with sex offender monitoring. I'm afraid that your lazy and G.W. Bush-esque attempt at learning a topic through a pathetic browse of 1 book preface is lacking in acedemic sincerity and shows all your degree of cowardice.  :-/


p.s. Perhaps it's time to box up your old collection of goofy foreign intel books and spy stories and begin researching a topic that is both relevant to your mission, and relevant to our children. It is high time that you cease being clumsy with your advice.

[Kalex]

palerider,

Salter's book provides no specific information about polygraph techniques. (I used Amazon's "Search Inside" feature.)

Please answer the questions I put to you. How do you purport to know that all the questions in Gotnochoice's polygraph examination were relevant? Of the two (s)he cited, only one was relevant, and it was a sacrifice relevant question. Again, please cite any reference documenting a polygraph technique that consists entirely of relevant questions.

George,
Salter is a psychologist, not a polygraph examiner. However, she does make ref to the polygraph
in some 19 places throughout her book.
I dont think that Palerider said in earnest that all questions on the test would be RQ's.
He is an experienced examiner. He was being flippant - in case you missed that.

I notice that when you're cornered you generally retort with, " cite any reference" or " there is no scientific research..etc " - which makes you somewhat hypocritical, as you (correctly) state that
polygraph is not a science, then why do you frequently say " there is no scientific research" to back
opposing views to your own....??

George, you are not the world authority on DOD technologies. Sometimes you show just how shallow your knowledge of the technologies are, when you make knee-jerk comments.

Regards.

[George W. Maschke]

Why do you assume that the question "Have you lied to anyone in group or to your Probation Officer"
is a Control Question (probable lie) ?
It is a POORLY constructed question, but if a p/g examiner uses such a poor question he could be using it
as a Relevant Question.

I believe it to be a probable-lie control question because in post conviction sex offender "testing," the relevant questions tend to be about go-to-jail violations of the examinee's terms of probation or parole. This question is vague in nature, and lies told "in group" or to the probation officer are not necessarily material to the examinee's terms of probation or parole.

GotNo admits that he is a convicted offender. Nowhere in his post does he proclaim to be innocent or
wrongfully convicted.

Agreed.

I think that to offer any advice to sexual offenders (on how to beat any test devised to detect bestial behaviour) is deplorable, and you should rethink your position in similar situations.

What I find deplorable is governmental reliance a fraudulent procedure that is wrongly called a "test" to monitor the compliance of convicted criminals with the terms of their probation or parole. Such reliance on an inherently unreliable, scientifically baseless procedure is clear and present danger to public safety.

I am interested in the details of any novel polygraph techniques, and thus would like to know more about the procedure used with Gotnochoice.

I hope that GotNo fails his test, goes to jail and gets it good.

I would only hope so if, in fact, Gotnochoice has violated his or her terms of probation/parole. At this point, there is no indication that such is the case.

[palerider]

Kalex wrote; "George,
Salter is a psychologist, not a polygraph examiner. However, she does make ref to the polygraph
in some 19 places throughout her book.
I dont think that Palerider said in earnest that all questions on the test would be RQ's.
He is an experienced examiner. He was being flippant - in case you missed that.




Yep