Re: Doug Williams...

[nonombre]

I was a guest on over 5,000 radio...shows

Okay Doug, we'll believe you if it makes you feel better.  It's your story and you can tell it anyway you want....

[Doug Williams]

Yes "nonombre" 5000!  Does that seem like a lot to you?  During the time I was on CBS 60 Minutes and making the night time talk shows on national television, 60 Minutes was the most popular news magazine show in the country - literally millions of viewers - and they showed my segment 5 times in a two year period!  That caused a lot of interest in the local radio talk show markets.  I was, and still am, a very popular radio talk show guest.  But during that period it was not unusual for me to do 3 or more five or ten minute segments a day.  My website, http://www.polygraph.com gets around ten thousand hits a day, and has for over 10 years.  And I have been doing this crusade against the polygraph and those of you who use it for almost 30 years.  How long have you been running polygraph tests - half that long?  As to whether you believe me or not I couldn't care less - I certainly don't believe any of the BS you post!

[palerider]

Eos Jupitor said to Dr. Barland: "Dr Barland,

I was hoping you would show up again. You are one of the few pro-polygraph folks whose opinion is actually worth something."

Why should his opinion mean something more than other examiners? His research shows (as I recall) underwhelming success in utilizing TLBTLT. He certainly has conveyed in lectures that polygraph needs improvement (as I and scores of others do)---his humility is an attractive trait indeed----but  his honoring of posters' professed patriotism is likely little more than lip service. No one doubts that GWB is a fine patriot, but jesus what lousy outcomes from his patriotism. So why give Dr. B. a butt hickey? Aren't you going to check to see if his phd is from a Mad magazine ad? Why don't you tell him that he is reading entrails or analyzing tea leaves----and finish with the brady-bunch predictable "you are deluding yourself...voodoo...."? What gives? Don't get me wrong, I do like to see civility---but is it sincere?
And also, doesn't George need to apologize for his gross mischaracterizations of D. Williams, a man that deserves no less than a presidential medal of freedom for his efforts in helping both the good guys AND the bad guys. Doug, you're an equal opportunity philanthropist. Machiavelli eat your heart out.

[Doug Williams]

Palerider wrote:

Doug, you're an equal opportunity philanthropist. Machiavelli eat your heart out.

Palerider, your sarcastic comparison of me to Machiavelli is not as much of a slam as you intended.  Read this and educate yourself.  Pay particular attention to the last sentence: "The world must change it's vision of the cold, uncaring Machiavelli to the correct view of a patriot and a political genius."  That does remind me of me - thanks palerider for recognizing that quality in me.


Niccolo Machiavelli

Niccolo Machiavelli was born on May 3, 1469, in Florence, Italy. He eventually became a man who lived his life for politics and patriotism. Right now, however, he is associated with corrupt, totalitarian government. The reason for this is a small pamphlet he wrote called The Prince to gain influence with the ruling Medici family in Florence. The political genius of Niccolo Machiavelli was overshadowed by the reputation that was unfairly given to him because of a misunderstanding of his views on politics.

Machiavelli's life was very interesting. He lived a nondescript childhood in Florence, and his main political experience in his youth was watching Savanarola from afar. Soon after Savanarola was executed, Machiavelli entered the Florentine government as a secretary. His position quickly rose, however, and was soon engaging in diplomatic missions. He met many of the important politicians of the day, such as the Pope and the King of France, but none had more impact on him than a prince of the Papal States, Cesare Borgia. Borgia was a cunning, cruel man, very much like the one portrayed in The Prince. Machiavelli did not truly like Borgia's policies, but he thought that with a ruler like Borgia the Florentines could unite Italy, which was Machiavelli's goal throughout his life. Unfortunately for Machiavelli, he was dismissed from office when the Medici came to rule Florence and the Republic was overthrown. The lack of a job forced him to switch to writing about politics instead of being active. His diplomatic missions were his last official government positions.

When Machiavelli lost his office, he desperately wanted to return to politics. He tried to gain the favor of the Medici by writing a book of what he thought were the Medici's goals and dedicating it to them. And so The Prince was written for that purpose. Unfortunately, the Medici didn't agree with what the book said, so he was out of a job. But when the public saw the book, they were outraged. The people wondered how cruel a man could be to think evil thoughts like the ones in The Prince, and this would come back to haunt him when he was alive and dead. However, if the people wanted to know what Machiavelli really stood for, they should have read his "Discourses on Livy", which explain his full political philosophy. But not enough people had and have, and so the legacy of The Prince continues to define Machiavelli to the general public.

A few years later the Medici were kicked out of Florence. The republic was re-established, and Machiavelli ran to retake the office he had left so many years ago. But the reputation that The Prince had established made people think his philosophy was like the Medici, so he was not elected. And here the sharp downhill of his life began. His health began to fail him, and he died months later, in 1527.

Machiavelli had been unfairly attacked all of his life because of a bad reputation. But it only got worse after he died. He was continually blasted for his "support" of corrupt ruling. In fact, Machiavellian now means corrupt government. Only recently has his true personality come to light. The world must change it's vision of the cold, uncaring Machiavelli to the correct view of a patriot and a political genius.

[palerider]

So you feel up to the characterization of political genius? All aside, I appreciate the lesson in post-distortion history. Incidentally, did you know that Attila the Hunn loved children----he was a victim of smear I tell you! My remarks refferred to your triangulation------profiting by both adversarial sides of the poly divide.  It is a perfect throne. To sell a disease and cure simultaneously is quite notable. The folks will argue which sides of polygraph fall into the "disease" and which to the "cure."

[EosJupiter]

Eos Jupitor said to Dr. Barland: "Dr Barland,

I was hoping you would show up again. You are one of the few pro-polygraph folks whose opinion is actually worth something."

Why should his opinion mean something more than other examiners? His research shows (as I recall) underwhelming success in utilizing TLBTLT. He certainly has conveyed in lectures that polygraph needs improvement (as I and scores of others do)---his humility is an attractive trait indeed----but  his honoring of posters' professed patriotism is likely little more than lip service. No one doubts that GWB is a fine patriot, but jesus what lousy outcomes from his patriotism. So why give Dr. B. a butt hickey? Aren't you going to check to see if his phd is from a Mad magazine ad? Why don't you tell him that he is reading entrails or analyzing tea leaves----and finish with the brady-bunch predictable "you are deluding yourself...voodoo...."? What gives? Don't get me wrong, I do like to see civility---but is it sincere?
And also, doesn't George need to apologize for his gross mischaracterizations of D. Williams, a man that deserves no less than a presidential medal of freedom for his efforts in helping both the good guys AND the bad guys. Doug, you're an equal opportunity philanthropist. Machiavelli eat your heart out.

palerider,

Gordon Barland is worthy of respect and civil interaction, and he has a real Phd.
Something I highly doubt you will ever aspire too. Scientific study, verbal discourse, and the ability to rationalize and debate all fall into this realm. You on the otherhand decided to prove yourself as cavalier and not worthy of even  reading, with the exception of the comic relief you provide. Beating you and your polygraph I do believe would be quite easy. THis is because you overestimate your abilities. I have no fallicies in regards to you being a legend in your own mind !!  Actually catching a prepared, audacious, and intelligent subject using countermeasures, is not going to happen.  Or just not caring and coming out with a inconclusive, I can do those all day.  Beats you everytime.

Regards ...

[palerider]

Somehow I feel as though I'm on a martial arts message board being informed of how a poster can break my neck with his pinky-------and all the while the threats are being made by a 12 year old boy who has watched a few Bond movies. I imagine that your countermeasures would be quite effective in a lab where you pretend to steal $5 from your teacher who instructed you to do so (whew, what a caper.) As far as getting inconclusives, I would have gotten an inconclusive on my GRE if only I had had the cunning to urinate on my answer sheet upon completion. Maybe your boast of getting inconclusives at will is an accomplishment in the hospital security shack, but in the world of intrepid counterworks, it's like pooping in a urine sample. awesome feat man, awesome.

[EosJupiter]

Palerider,

Dealing with the used car salesmen mentality is easy, not much of a leap from that to a PDD examiner.  But the bitterness I am seeing in your post speaks volumes about how bad your being beat, especially by the information provided on this website as well as by Doug Williams. I have a  copy of his stuff too.  It must be tough to go home at night and not fully trust yourself, not knowing if you were beat by countermeasures today. But thats ok, you can tell yourself in the mirror, on how great you really are. Since you never will know,  I may have been one of the ones to beat you.   Or even better I could have been the one standing next to you at the last polygraph association meeting.  But just like countermeasures, you will never know.

All the best !!

[nonombre]

Yes "nonombre" 5000!  Does that seem like a lot to you?  During the time I was on CBS 60 Minutes and making the night time talk shows on national television, 60 Minutes was the most popular news magazine show in the country - literally millions of viewers - and they showed my segment 5 times in a two year period!  That caused a lot of interest in the local radio talk show markets.  I was, and still am, a very popular radio talk show guest.  But during that period it was not unusual for me to do 3 or more five or ten minute segments a day.  My website, http://www.polygraph.com gets around ten thousand hits a day, and has for over 10 years.  And I have been doing this crusade against the polygraph and those of you who use it for almost 30 years.  How long have you been running polygraph tests - half that long?  As to whether you believe me or not I couldn't care less - I certainly don't believe any of the BS you post!

Doug,

What your post implies is that on 5000 separate occasions, you sat down with a radio host and was interviewed.  You are claiming FIVE THOUSAND INDIVIDUAL radio interviews...

My dear deluded friend...

Ronald Reagan was not interviewed 5000 times.
Madonna has not been interviewed 5000 times.
The Beatles were not interviewed 5000 times.

But a washed up, couldn't hack the job, ex Oklahoma cop with a two bit amateurish website, is interviewed 5000 times?

As they like to say on this website, prove it.  Show me a verifible list.  Until that time, you my friend are the one who is totally filled to overflowing with most pungent form of B.S.

Have a nice day, my "famous" friend...

Nonombre 8-)

[palerider]

Eosjupiter said "Palerider,

Dealing with the used car salesmen mentality is easy, not much of a leap from that to a PDD examiner.  But the bitterness I am seeing in your post speaks volumes about how bad your being beat, especially by the information provided on this website as well as by Doug Williams. I have a  copy of his stuff too.  It must be tough to go home at night and not fully trust yourself, not knowing if you were beat by countermeasures today. But thats ok, you can tell yourself in the mirror, on how great you really are. Since you never will know,  I may have been one of the ones to beat you.   Or even better I could have been the one standing next to you at the last polygraph association meeting.  But just like countermeasures, you will never know.  

All the best !! "
 
Oh my gosh. The thought of you attending those ultra secret masonic ufo cover-up polygraph association meetings ---undetected no less---sends shivers down my crack. Worse yet, if I were to face your magnificent and forceful aura in the poly room----I'm afraid that your mastery of human deception would cause me to seek counseling---maybe even drive me to a new profession. My god, you could be underneath my chair right now as I type, so close to my privates that you could actually blow on them.

[EosJupiter]

Palerider,

Dam its been such a long time since I have had this much fun. You polygraphers have been absent way too long as of late. But "shiver down my crack,  "and blowing on your genitals", I guess with nothing else going for you latent, forbidden fantasies must be all you have. For it appears ad-hom attacks are all you got. And yes I have no worries about the outcome of any polygraph I may again have to take. Deception, like chess is a practiced art !!     8-)  
Not that you can tell !!

Regards ...

[palerider]

I just ran to the store for tommorrow's breakfast and I saw a balding man with bad teeth buying "high times," was that you? Now I think you're everywhere. :-?

I don't believe your testimonials. Have you ever heard of remote viewing?
You are the one being watched.  

[EosJupiter]

palerider,

What sour grapes, I expected more from such an eloquent debater. As far as being watched, I really could care less. As researching, understanding, and disbelieving in polygraphy is not a crime.
And neither is countermeasures or the use their of. And as far as I remember, my rights to free speech haven't been revoked either. And I push the anti rhetoric as much and often as possible. So I highly doubt I will ever be polygraphed again. As I won't put up with it. Not unless I get a polygrapher I really want to mess with. It would give me great pleasure to have sport with him.
And again, its not like that examiner could tell who he has in the seat.

Regards ....

[palerider]

No sour grapes here man. I'm calling your bluff. Like former privates who, at bars, tell women that they were in special forces, I believe that your prowess regarding polygraph domination is hooey. Send me a private message telling me under what circumstances you have been polygraphed and I'll give you client priv. Give me no identifiable info (name, state.) Impress me and I will give you props. I wish that I could post some charts of countermeasures. For chrissakes, a polygraph debate forum without actual field polygraph charts?! WTF?
This site is all talk---regarding the claims of countermeasure (false negatives) success. You are basically demanding of the polgraph community the equivelant of proving that bigfoot doesn't exist. The burden of proof lies on the lap of you, the advertiser. Do you guys sell antipolygraph.org dueche bags?

[George W. Maschke]

I wish that I could post some charts of countermeasures.

You can. All you need to do is scan them, save them in JPEG, GIF, or PNG format, and attach them to a message board post.