Relevant/Irrelevant Test

[BiggieG]

  I have questions about the relevant/irrelevant test. Are the irrelevant question responses compared to the relevant question responses? Should one employ such counter measures as thinking exciting thoughts when responding the the irrelevant questions, such as, "Are you sitting down"? Or should one focus on such countermeasures as consistent breathing when responding to the relevant questions, in hope of having consistent reponses. The online text is not clear, at least to me, concerning these issues. I would appreciate help ASAP. BiggieG

[underlyingtruth]

You need to read TLBTLD (page 106) if you haven't read it.
Irrelevant questions are just that... irrelevant.
You use CMs on the CONTROL QUESTIONS.

[BiggieG]

Well, in the relevant/irrelevant test there are no control questions, so why does it state that CMs are especially effective?

[George W. Maschke]

Well, in the relevant/irrelevant test there are no control questions, so why does it state that CMs are especially effective?

The Lie Behind the Lie Detector does not state that countermeasures to the relevant/irrelevant technique are "especially effective." The R/I technique is even more arbitrary than the CQT, so if anything, it is likely harder to countermeasure.

Polygraphers understand that the R/I technique is unreliable. As a consequence, they are more likely to consider extra-polygraphic information in reaching their conclusions. It is for this reason that we argue (at p. 151 of the 4th edition of TLBTLD) that "the behavioral countermeasures discussed earlier in this chapter will be of increased importance."

You might wish to read (or re-read) Chapters 3 & 4 of TLBTLD in their entirety.

[underlyingtruth]

I'm sorry; I think I may have misunderstood your question.  The Relevant/Irrelevant test is explained on pages 117-120 and 151 of TLBTLD.

I've never been given a R/I test before, so I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about it.  I interpret the last line to mean that the behavior countermeasures are more important since the polygrapher is mainly relying on his subjective opinion.  

In the last paragraph, I believe he is stating that the polygrapher looks for repeated responses to a particular question (regardless of the order) and that you should avoid producing such a pattern.

"You can prevent such a pattern from occurring by simply producing responses to two differing groups of two relevant questions within the different chart presentations."

I take that to mean that you should produce an artificial response to a different RQ during each chart.  
Any other opinions?

[alterego1]

"You can prevent such a pattern from occurring by simply producing responses to two differing groups of two relevant questions within the different chart presentations."

Any other opinions?

I am not very familiar with the R/I format either, but the concept of producing any measurable response to a relevant question sounds dangerous to me.  Maybe i'm just missing something.

[underlyingtruth]

I am not very familiar with the R/I format either, but the concept of producing any measurable response to a relevant question sounds dangerous to me.  Maybe i'm just missing something.

As I understand R/I tests (and I've never claimed to be an expert at ANYTHING), deception is indicated when a response is generated by the same RQ across multiple charts.  For example, if the polygrapher runs three charts with the questions in a different order on each chart, and each time you have an elevated response to a specific RQ, then the conclusion will be that you are lying on that RQ.  
So, if you were given a R/I test (which you won't be), then on the first chart use CMs on questions about topic A and C, on the second about topic D and G, and on the third about topic B and F.  
I hope that makes sense and that it is close to an accurate explanation.

[alterego1]

So, if you were given a R/I test (which you won't be),

Underlyingtruth,

Your explanation makes sense, and I believe that's what George was trying to get at in his book.  

In reference to the above quote, were you implying that R/I test formats are no longer administered (or are becoming less common)?

[underlyingtruth]

In the past 8 years, I PERSONALLY don't know of anyone that has been given an R/I test.  There may be some on this forum that have been.

[woogie]

I was given a R/I test a few weeks ago...I didn't know about this site beforehand, so I didn't counter anything, even if I could.  I was just honest, and I'm still awaiting the results.

[alterego1]

Woogie,

If you don't mind me asking, was this R/I test for a law enforcement agency?  I recall reading where many state law enforcement agencies are relying more and more on the R/I test versus the Probable Lie Control Question Test.

I'm not sure what their rationale behind this is, since the Department of Defense has already developed a law enforcement specific poly, which uses the PLCQT.  I would think the DOD's poly format would be the "gold standard" that other agencies would go by, but from what i'm hearing it's not the case.

[nonombre]

As I understand R/I tests (and I've never claimed to be an expert at ANYTHING), deception is indicated when a response is generated by the same RQ across multiple charts.  For example, if the polygrapher runs three charts with the questions in a different order on each chart, and each time you have an elevated response to a specific RQ, then the conclusion will be that you are lying on that RQ.  
So, if you were given a R/I test (which you won't be), then on the first chart use CMs on questions about topic A and C, on the second about topic D and G, and on the third about topic B and F.  
I hope that makes sense and that it is close to an accurate explanation.

If you follow this course of action, you will be determined to be deceptive to questions A,B,C,D,F, and G. (as well as question E if that was the question you were indeed trying to mask in your attempts to manipulate your responses to adjoining questions.)

I don't see where that would help anything... :-/

Regards,

Nonombre

[underlyingtruth]

Enlighten us!

[woogie]

Everyone seems to say that R/I tests aren't performed any longer, or very seldom.  I was just recently tested by a fairly large department, and I think my test was R/I.
Some of the questions were:
Did you lie about any questions in the application?
Is your name shawn?
Did you lie about any of the drug usage questions?
Did you lie about any of the sex questions?
Have you lied to me at all today?
Were you born in Philadelphia?

This seems to be an R/I test to me.  Maybe I'm wrong.

[woogie]

Woogie,

If you don't mind me asking, was this R/I test for a law enforcement agency?  I recall reading where many state law enforcement agencies are relying more and more on the R/I test versus the Probable Lie Control Question Test.

I'm not sure what their rationale behind this is, since the Department of Defense has already developed a law enforcement specific poly, which uses the PLCQT.  I would think the DOD's poly format would be the "gold standard" that other agencies would go by, but from what i'm hearing it's not the case.

Yes...it was for a LEO.