Important: My Polygraph Test was Inconclusive

[perplexed]

Hello Everybody... How y'all doing?  

An important development following my original post at

https://antipolygraph.org/forum/index.php?topic=2917.msg20384#msg20384

It's been a few days since I posted... but in my good faith effort to faithfully share my experience accurately, the good folks at the FBI called and informed me that I did NOT fail my Polygraph test as I presupposed when I first made my original post... and courteously offered me a 2nd Polygraph test.

The new polygrapher sounded like a super nice guy (actually the first polygrapher equally sounded nice until he snapped at me during the examination)...

We both made references to the information found on polygraphs throughout the internet and I basically "dumped" on him all my bottled up feelings in the last few weeks explaining to him how, after  it took me over 4 years to get off my butt and "Do the Right thing for my country", I received a huge slap in the face and made to feel like a criminal when I was telling the TRUTH... I also continued  by saying something like "no one who is telling the truth should have to be afraid" as Johnn the Great so masterfully put it... and that "the polygraph is nothing short of junk science" (to which he totally disagreed and offered to show me proof to the contrary)...

I explained to him that I am a highly sensitive man and that I am petrified of embarrassing myself again in a 2nd exam (I actually am so embarrassed that I did not tell anyone except one of my very close family members about the first exam)...

The fact remains that, to date, I still cannot figure out why I had such severe emotional and physiological reaction to the control question and have no reason to believe that this time will be any different for me....

I am going to present another "psychological theory"... I am NOT a psychology expert and this is NOT a scientific theory...  It may be TOTALLY wrong!... so, I do NOT want to be judged... made fun of, nor will I tolerate ad hominem attacks....

Unless someone has the intellectual competence and the "good heart" to understand carefully the delicate nuance of this theory and my entire post, please remain quiet and go start your own post!...

When I lived in the in the 3rd world, I, like MANY OTHERS, was always petrified when someone of authority had ANY question even if I or my family did NOTHING wrong and have absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic of the question... Of course, there were no polygraphs but in regular conversations, if someone of authority asked me if I knew anything about someone who did something bad... and even if I  knew nothing about that person, I immediately "looked" guilty... and I  became a nervous wreck hoping that he will not get me or my family involved just because... This may be very hard to understand for most of you good folks who did not experience the 3rd world... but please.. at least try!...

The closest thing to an "American" experience is when any of you hears the alarm system go off next door ... As a "good Samaritan", you call 911 and, "without wanting to get involved" you just want to let the cops know that the "alarm next door" went off...  To that , the cop responds "OK, thank you... what's your name?"... and you say "listen...I do not want to get involved... I just wanted to be helpful"... and then he, having your phone record from 911, would respond "OK... you are so and so...and you live on so and so, right?"... It is HIS right to ask that!... but if you were like me, you would feel very nervous, OFFENDED (do not ask me why nor knock me down), and hope that the cop doesn't think you have anything to do with the alarm being set off and investigate you... and pray that they do not involve you.... This is ALL irrational... but that's how I ACTUALLY would feel!...

Although unrelated, I felt the same way AS SOON as the relevant question was asked!...

My point is that even if I get a slightest hint of negative energy (and I am VERY smart and sensitive to detect it) for being questioned about something bad, I get IRRATIONALLY petrified... I am my worst enemy in that sense!... It does NOT mean that I am not telling the TRUTH!...

So for me, if the polygraph examination will be conducted in a manner similar to the first test (I am not sure how it could be different), I see no reason why I should be "calm and collected" when he asks the relevant question

All in all, he was an awesome listener and a "best friend" material... and he said that "now that you vented... you should really feel better"... and continued by saying that I have a choice to take the Polygraph exam again.... and he really sounded sincerely concerned... He didn't for a minute make me feel that he had ANY suspicion that I am a criminal...  so I felt very good at the end of the conversation even though my whole body was shaking from the memory of the first experience and the possibility of a repeat experience...

I asked if I can get back to him and he sincerely obliged... even courteously offering me his own cell phone number to reach him any time...

On the one hand, I am COMFORTED that I will be in good hands with him but, on the other hand, I am petrified that I will go and just embarrass myself a 2nd time...  I know this time I will NOT be "happy go  lucky" as I was the first time on my way to the polygraph test...

Also, I am not sure how to deal with my bitterness and utter disappointment towards the polygraph!...  I know that he meant well when he said that he will show me proof that the polygraph is not junk science..... I MUST keep an open mind and I definitely WILL...  but I am very highly intelligent... and the simplest proof of all that the polygraph does NOT give the FBI the TRUTH all the time is that I got FALSE positive even though I KNOW beyond ANY doubt that was telling the Truth!....

I have read through MANY of the "yo buddy... go get the 2nd test since it is offered"... "no, be careful, don't go as the FBI is just playing a game so they can look fair"... I do NOT need such unsupported and inflammatory advice... I can read it elsewhere on this good board!... I sincerely need valid "cause-effect", root cause,  and well thought out, accurate and critical analysis that is conducive to my post and helpful to me in making my critical decision.

Again this is NOT an invitation for the drunk dogs of society to come howling and babbling senselessly... nor is it a license for anyone to knock down the USA and its fine agencies INCLUDING the FBI!...

By the way, I sincerely bow my hat to Johnn and Polyfool who astutely indicated that my test would be INCONCLUSVE.... Love you friends!...

So, I thank and invite Johnn, EOSJupiter, George, polyfool detector1012000, Sargeant1107, Twoblock and even quickfix (but no unnecessary barbs, please)... and everyone else like them to come forward with accurate, verifiable and well thought out analysis, comments and advice....

Thank you all!...

[Screwed]

Perplexed,
During my entire polygraph the examiner was very nice and I really thought he was trying to help me out.  He never yelled or confronted me.  I thought things were great until I got my rejection letter!!  Don't believe them they are horrible human beings, who make a living LYING on a regular basis.  

[antrella]

Hey perplexed. I read your initial post with great interest.

You already know the story. The polygraph is bunk, junk science. Most people here will tell you that 2nd/3rd polygraphs with the FBI are useless, and no one ever passes them etc etc. Don't worry about that.

You actually don't need to worry about much. You need to be confident and self-assured in your responses. You know you're not a terrorist (quite the contrary - a patriot); nor a drug dealer or user. The bottom line is you can pass a poly two ways: 1) Luck, or 2) Proactively.

It's up to you to decide. It's possible that now, having taken the polygraph and being familiar w/ the format & questioning, you can waltz back in there and pass it with flying colors. Or, you may want to do something to ENSURE you pass - namely, countermeasures.

Whatever you decide, choose carefully and go with it 100%. It's a shame that a qualified Arabic speaker like you (or George, for that matter), would miss out on an opportunity to serve because a person operating a flawed machine purports to read your mind. But that's the way it is.

[perplexed]

Antrella

Such a creative name!... Does it mean something?

Thank you for your warm and highly insightful response!...

Although I really need to hear other advice from other "good people", my first instinct WAS to walk tall... go to the 2nd Polygraph test with confidence... and just be myself the way I went the very first time... and simply TELL THE TRUTH!...

And you are right on the money!..... It is really sad that I ONLY have 2 options:  1. Luck 2. Countermeasures.

Countermeasures seem to be "oh so easy!" for someone with my intellect and my nervous nature (just be nervous and exxagerate my emotions ALL the time)!... It's just I do NOT have it in me to "win" unfairly!... This is NOT about winning a game... It is about deep rooted Honor and Having that ONE chance of UNSELFISHLESSLY serving my Country (I know being an Arabic translator is NOT being a soldier... but in my mind it is the ONLY chance I will ever have... since I loathe politics and corruption and have NO ambitions other than live a good, stress free, happy go lucky life which I already have!)... and most importantly, for ME, it is about the FBI knowing the TRUTH about me from me NOT from a dumb ass Polygraph!...  

As for Luck... Well Luck in "stressful" situations like these, is my enemy... On top of that, I AM my worst enemy as I get so worried about screwing up that I screw up!.... I know I WILL have an INVOLUNTARY reaction to the relevant question!...

My hope is that the FBI are much SMARTER than to solely rely on "junk science"... The FBI is the SMARTEST intelligence agency in the ENTIRE world (well... perhaps as good or close second to Scotland Yard)... I am PERPLEXED by how they rely on the polygraph to find the truth!....

My other issue is my childish dilemma of "They hurt my feelings!"... For the last few weeks, I accepted what I could not control... I accepted the fact that I might have failed...  and just moved on with my life... putting the nightmare encounter all behind me... I came to terms with the fact that I tried to do something good for my country... but it just wasn't meant to be...  

Now... I am really no longer as EXCITED about that romantic notion of doing what is RIGHT!... nor am I as motivated to do something unselfish just like our boys and girls are doing every day in Afghanistan and Iraq, with thousands ending up living blind or without limbs or worse losing their lives so that the rest of us may have life and have it more abundantly!...

Correct me if I misunderstood... but I did not know that George spoke Arabic... Do you George?  In any case, THANK you for your helpful site... and although I may disagree with some of your points of view, you are a good man!...

God bless America!...

[EosJupiter]

Perplexed,

I have watched your thread unfold and I have a great amount of admiration for your ability to analyze and keep a perspective that a lesser intellect would have probably failed on by now. If you go to the 2nd polygraph with the FBI, then go in ready, honest and knowlegeable. Anything less would tarnish the honor and courage you undoubtably have. But remember that even if they (DI) you, you have what it takes in any endeavor that you pursue. And it will be FBI's loss. Myself I wouldn't work for any organization that makes you crawl and prove your honest via interrogation.  Good luck in any decision you make

Regards ... !!!!

[George W. Maschke]

perplexed,

Yes, I speak Arabic, but not with native fluency. You can read more about my background and polygraph experience here.

Here are some thoughts to keep in mind:

1) You didn't mention whether you told the new polygrapher that you have posted on AntiPolygraph.org under the screen name "perplexed." If you didn't, you should be aware that the FBI polygraph unit is likely well aware of who you are.

2) People who don't believe in polygraphy are a threat to polygraphers. Too often, polygraphers perceive non-believers as being insubordinate (if not subversive), unpatriotic, and certainly not to be trusted. You have seen how the NSA polygraph unit ultimately retaliated against Onesimus, who, like you, was candid about his views regarding polygraphy.

3) Even if the FBI were to offer you a job, are you sure you want to take it? I think you may have been looking at the FBI through rose-colored glasses. Look at the way they've treated you thus far. Is that the kind of employer you want to work for? You might also consider the recent experience of former FBI contract linguist Sibel Edmonds.

4) Right now, all you have in your permanent FBI HQ is an inconclusive polygraph result. If you agree to a "re-test," you risk having a "failed" polygraph on your record, or, even worse, an accusation of having used countermeasures. You could minimize your losses by withdrawing your application now. If I were in your shoes, I would probably choose this option.

5) If you do agree to a "re-test," I would suggest not using countermeasures. By posting here, you've left yourself little choice but to adopt the "complete honesty" approach outlined in Chapter 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. I think this is your preferred option, in any event. But be aware that your decision not to use countermeasures provides no guarantee that you won't be falsely accused of countermeasure use, just as telling the truth provides no guarantee that you won't be accused of deception.

[perplexed]

EOSJupiter:

Thanks a lot my friend...  I guess I need good luck...  

I knew that the decision will not be easy after having been re-encouraged by my friendly conversation with the good FBI polygrapher... but I did not think it would be THIS hard... especially in light of the "hair raising" thoughts from George... which will take me a long time to digest!....  Lucky for me, I have more "rose-colored glasses" faith in the FBI than he does... and I hope that they will live up to the high regard I place in them...

Hey buddy... what does "DI you" mean exactly?

[antrella]

....
5) If you do agree to a "re-test," I would suggest not using countermeasures. By posting here, you've left yourself little choice but to adopt the "complete honesty" approach outlined in Chapter 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. I think this is your preferred option, in any event. But be aware that your decision not to use countermeasures provides no guarantee that you won't be falsely accused of countermeasure use, just as telling the truth provides no guarantee that you won't be accused of deception.

George - I'm curious why you counsel against the use of countermeasures - is it because his identity is probably known to the polygraphers and you assume he'll be under extra scrutiny, or for some other reason?

Perplexed - I believe (DI) is shorthand for "deception indicated," which is polygrapher parlance for "lying" (meaning disqualification).

[George W. Maschke]

antrella,

By posting enough detail that he could be identified, "perplexed" left himself little choice but to adopt the "complete honesty" approach.

But more generally, I think that nowadays, many polygraphers are assuming that by the time an applicant for employment reports for a "re-test," he/she will have researched polygraphy. The returning examinee who denies having done so is likely to be disbelieved. I also suspect that an examinee reporting for a "re-test" is at increased risk of being accused of countermeasure use whether or not he/she actually employs them. Thus, I think the better option in such situations is the "complete honesty" approach.

[perplexed]

Thank you George for your thought-provoking ideas... I may disagree with you on a few points, but that's the TRUE American Spirit. God bless America!... We are both entitled to disagree, yet still be able to communicate honestly and openly without resentment or fear of expression.  Here are my responses/requests for clarification:

You didn't mention whether you told the new polygrapher that you have posted on AntiPolygraph.org under the screen name "perplexed." If you didn't, you should be aware that the FBI polygraph unit is likely well aware of who you are. .

No... I did not... but, most importantly, he did not ask!... I would hope that the good FBI are aware of who I am since they have my file, they called ME, and they are doing a background investigation on me as I authorized them to do...  If you meant that they are aware that I reached out and posted on the internet in good faith to seek reliable answers and expand my circle of knowledge, so be it!... Yes, I post on the internet like MILLIONS of good Americans do every day!...  I happen to like the internet for the verifiable facts I can obtain... Your site is helpful to me and I thank you...

Even though I may disagree with some of your analysis... that's how one keeps an open mind and critically analyzes a topic considering various angles!... For Heaven's sake, I even disagree with Sean Hannity sometimes!....

Even if the FBI were to offer you a job, are you sure you want to take it? I think you may have been looking at the FBI through rose-colored glasses. Look at the way they've treated you thus far. Is that the kind of employer you want to work for?

To a certain extent, I am still looking at the FBI through rose-colored glasses.  It is a romantic notion for me to get a chance to be useful to my country!... Of course, the UNNECESSARY slap in the face should have NEVER taken place, but, with the exception of the 1st polygrapher snapping at me (and he probably had no choice but to do so),  the FBI has been a pleasant experience to me... I simply presupposed that I failed and had a NORMAL reaction to it...   but I am a positive person and would like to keep my life stress free...

Right now, all you have in your permanent FBI HQ is an inconclusive polygraph result. If you agree to a "re-test," you risk having a "failed" polygraph on your record, or, even worse, an accusation of having used countermeasures. You could minimize your losses by withdrawing your application now. If I were in your shoes, I would probably choose this option.

While this may be a remote possibility, I am not sure it is a probability... The good agent was sensitive enough to respectfully give me the option of not taking the test, if I so choose, assuring me that no further investigation will follow. PERIOD!...  Having said that, I still much prefer a ONE scope, National Security focused, and ACCURATE investigation of my background, NOT to randomly invade my constitutionally protected privacy and personal life, but rather to determine the TRUTH instead of relying on a "faulty" Polygraph which did NO justice to the Truth in my case!...  Even though I received an inconclusive result, it is a CONCLUSIVE evidence to me that the polygraph doe not work 100% accurately 100% of the time since I WAS telling he TRUTH!...

If you do agree to a "re-test," I would suggest not using countermeasures. By posting here, you've left yourself little choice but to adopt the "complete honesty" approach outlined in Chapter 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. I think this is your preferred option, in any event.

Yup... That is my preferred option IF I choose to re-take the test...

But be aware that your decision not to use countermeasures provides no guarantee that you won't be falsely accused of countermeasure use, just as telling the truth provides no guarantee that you won't be accused of deception.

This is where you and I respectfully disagree... I am not big on a conspiracy theories... I have faith in the FBI... As Americans, we are all confronted with a NEW world order after 9/11 whereby the FBI have to utilize whatever they can to protect us from harms way and I thank them for that!... However, unnecessarily scaring away good, patriotic Americans like me though, is of NO help to our country...  

Of course, as a sensitive man and a true patriot who has great love for the U.S., I feel enormous need to be treated with HONOR and APPRECIATION... NOT make me "sweat it" or "crawl" because of a faulty polygraph...

All in all, on MY own road less traveled, I will soon be reaching a fork in the road... So, either
1. I will be accepted and will be helpful to the U.S. or
2. I will not accepted and my good life will continues as is...

I am at peace with either possibility...  I just felt uneasy sitting on my ass doing nothing to help out in the last 5 years when I knew I could...

Now, my conscience is clear, I took initiative... and what is meant to be... will be!...

[Bill Crider]

I say take the test again. If you pass, you get to be in the FBI. That is not a bad thing. Not everything the FBI does is good, but so it goes with every job. If you dont pass, no harm done for most applicants who will return to some private sector job somewhere like I did. Unless you have some other career path that will involve people needing your FBI file, I doubt it will affect anything.

I told dozens of people about my poly result. There is no embarrasment. It is the test that is wrong, not me.

You have placed all of your cards on the table with the FBI, I think you will find them more sympathetic than you might imagine on your re-test.

I think it was a bit different with George. He was in the intelligence business and the FBI result disrupted his career. For folks like me, while I was upset, I never had a career trashed by it, I simply didnt get to start one.

[perplexed]

It is the test that is wrong, not me.

Oh my God!... How true!... a very powerful and to the point statement of fact that is overflowing with Eloquent Simplicity!... I thank you Bill... This is the level of POSITIVE, non-inflammatory and factual input I am seeking!... What can be more simple than "It is the test that is wrong, not me." Duh!...

I say take the test again. If you pass, you get to be in the FBI. That is not a bad thing. Not everything the FBI does is good, but so it goes with every job. If you dont pass, no harm done

No, it is not a bad thing... and from the feeling I get from dealing with the FBI, they seem to be "good people"...

The only thing that concerns me, is what I hear about the FBI record of the "FAULTY" polygraph results IF I don't pass the 2nd time...

Such record, if it does exist, is like being GUILTY until proven innocent which is so NON American and a sad reminder of life in the 3rd World...  

Actually, it is worse... It is GUILTY based on NO valid evidence whatsoever... which is oh! so totally NON American and entirely devoid of any Justice!...  I seriously doubt that such "dubious" record exists!...

You have placed all of your cards on the table with the FBI, I think you will find them more sympathetic than you might imagine on your re-test.

I think so, Bill... Thanks again!...

[Fair Chance]

Dear Perplexed,

Get ready for a rude awakening.  The system does not care about false positives.  As far as they are concerned "this is the cost of doing business."

It is a numbers game.  Alot of applicants for a few positions.  Anyone who "fails" is an acceptable casualty in the "war against terror."  Sad but true.

Those people who think that they have "highly needed skills" which will exempt themselves from the polygraph witchhunt will be rudely awakened to the hard facts.

Regards.

[quickfix]

Perplexed;

I agree with Bill Crider;  take advantage and accept a re-test;  if you decline, you'll kick yourself down the road later for not having availed yourself of the opportunity.  You'll regret not knowing what "might have been".  You also have nothing to lose, since no current job is depending on this.  It sounds like your re-test will be assigned to a more senior, experienced examiner.  I also recommend the "honesty" approach.  If you employ countermeasures and get caught, you will never know if you would have passed it without them.  You will also not have a valid defense that "polygraph doesn't work", since CMs will automatically invalidate the test results.  If you don't employ CMs, a "false positive" argument would be more credible.  If you have any doubt as to the intent of the counterintelligence questions, require the examiner to clarify, and if necessary, reword them to your comfort level.  They should do that provided it does not change the scope of what they are required to verify.

Honest advice from a federal examiner.

[perplexed]

Perplexed;

I agree with Bill Crider;  take advantage and accept a re-test;  if you decline, you'll kick yourself down the road later for not having availed yourself of the opportunity.  You'll regret not knowing what "might have been".  You also have nothing to lose, since no current job is depending on this.

Thank you, my friend... This is where I am leaning to... but I am still dealing with the uneasy reminder that this is really too MUCH heartache for a 2nd class contract employee status with no benefits, etc...

It sounds like your re-test will be assigned to a more senior, experienced examiner.

Yeah... I think so...  

I also recommend the "honesty" approach.  If you employ countermeasures and get caught, you will never know if you would have passed it without them.  You will also not have a valid defense that "polygraph doesn't work", since CMs will automatically invalidate the test results.  If you don't employ CMs, a "false positive" argument would be more credible.

I already addressed that in my posts... I really do not have it in me to do CMs...

If you have any doubt as to the intent of the counterintelligence questions, require the examiner to clarify, and if necessary, reword them to your comfort level.  They should do that provided it does not change the scope of what they are required to verify.

I NEVER had any doubt whatsoever as to the intent of the question... The question itself is just too CREEPY for me!... I do NOT know why!... that's the BIGGEST problem when  KNOW I am telling the truth and STILL get false positive.  As Bill so eloquently put it "It is the test that is wrong, not me."

However, you helpful advice to reword the question to my comfort level is something to consider... as if it were made very short, I MAY have a lesser reaction to it... but again it's putting unnecessary pressure on me with NO guarantee that I will not get a FALSE positive.

Honest advice from a federal examiner.

Thanks again for the advice, my friend... I am not sure if you are at liberty to say... but are you an FBI examiner somewhere in the US?