Highly detailed Anti Polygraph research

[EosJupiter]

To all concerned,

I came across this article while doing law research. It is very detailed and the authors are extremely well known and respected. One is a well known law professor. It is a great read and it really hits home about why we believe the polygraph is just wrong. And for our polygraphers, please do chime in, enough debate issues in this one for all.

Link:
http://issues.org/20.1/faigman.html

Well worth the read, and its authors can't be disputed.
If this has been posted before then I appologize for the duplication. Its still a good read.

Regards ....

[Sergeant1107]

If it has been posted here before I must have missed it.

Very good find.  Thanks for posting.

[187Dick]

The polygraph instrument is merely a tool used to detect physiology changes in a subject while being questioned about relevant criteria.  The problems arise from poorly trained or unethical examiners who fail to formulate questions properly or conduct pre-test and post-test interviews with a biased approach against the examinee.

If the use of the polygraph was as unfair as most of those on this website seem to think, then the use of "countermeasures" to beat the test would not be needed.  The truth is, the only reason for countermeasures is to conceal lies from the concerned intity, whether it be the police or a potential employer.

No system is perfect, and even the best examiner may occasionally miss countermeasure attempts; however, the system of a polygraph instrument and a well trained and ethical examiner is still one of the most accurate methods of obtaining the truth from deceptive people.  

[EosJupiter]

The polygraph instrument is merely a tool used to detect physiology changes in a subject while being questioned about relevant criteria.  The problems arise from poorly trained or unethical examiners who fail to formulate questions properly or conduct pre-test and post-test interviews with a biased approach against the examinee.

If the use of the polygraph was as unfair as most of those on this website seem to think, then the use of "countermeasures" to beat the test would not be needed.  The truth is, the only reason for countermeasures is to conceal lies from the concerned intity, whether it be the police or a potential employer.

No system is perfect, and even the best examiner may occasionally miss countermeasure attempts; however, the system of a polygraph instrument and a well trained and ethical examiner is still one of the most accurate methods of obtaining the truth from deceptive people.  

187DICK,

Lets dissect your posts in sections, first off section one. Your absolutely correct its just a tool. A pressure tool, that is good for intimidating people. Knowlege of the polygraph process and the ability to ascertain Control VS Relevant questions, and lack of fear does in your pressure tool. THe NAS study specifically addressed  that an examinee with knowlege of (mental) countermeasures more than compensates for any intimidation factors. Without fear and anxiety you can't get your flight or fight responses.  1st tenant you need to make your voodoo work, Or NO FEAR means non working machine. But your attempts at stimulation are always highly laughable.

Section two, Anyone of consequence or intellect will never walk into something such as a polygraph exam unread or unprepared. Your statements here are the old reliable stalwarts of most interrogators. Honest people should always be wary of anything where you have to prove your self honest via interrogation. THe internet and the ability to research more than compensates for your lack of candor to an examinee.  Your polygraphers schtick must have the examinee believe that you can detect deception. Without that buy in, again your physiological responses are non existant.  Tenant # 2  You have to have 100% belief that the polygraph works. Being well read and prepared mitigates this part. And knowing deep down in your soul thats its a bunch of horse dung. Well you know, no responses.

And lastly I highly doubt that its occasionally you miss countermeasures. Grant you I will buy into that the physical type ones you can easily detect. But the mental ones I know you can't.  3rd Tenant, There has to be consequences for failure. Remember now, if  one has to take a polygraph, and if you willing to walk away and just say no, you don't even get a shot. Which is always the best choice. Any good defense lawyer would never let a person take a polygraph unless its with an examiner of his choosing, and with a high probability that he will be deemed (NDI). So you see, intellect, knowlege, preparation and audacity, will alway win the day.

Bottomline ... Folks taking polygraphs armed with the knowlege and the ability to use it, are causing you examiners untold levels of grief. When the polygraph is stopped being used for hiring, is when this will all go away. I don't have a problem with the polygraph used in criminal investigations. So there is grounds for agreements.

But your post was well done, and worthy of debate.

Regards ...

[Bill Crider]

187's argument presupposes that the use of countermeasures is only for the guilty to beat the test.

Most people that post here regularly are the victims of false positives. CMs are a way for the innocent to avoid improper accusation.

[Twoblock]

EosJupitor

I don't buy into even the physical detection. I have tested this also and the sensor pad didn't register anything above the normal uncontrollable body movements. If a polygrapher ever asked me to drop my pants to check me, that's the day I call him a f--g pervert and walk.

[nonombre]

EosJupitor

I have tested this also and the sensor pad didn't register anything above the normal uncontrollable body movements.

You have a sensor pad?

[EosJupiter]

You have a sensor pad?

Just for the point of reference, why settle for just a sensor pad, when a whole machine can be had for under $30.00. And it can be made workable. Oh the possibilities !!  Link follows:

http://cgi.ebay.com/LAFAYETTE-INSTRUMEN-MINI-GRAPH-POLYGRAPH-LIE-DETECTOR_W0QQitemZ5877599227QQcategoryZ73364QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Or you can buy the whole detector, there were 2 LAFAYETTE Diplomat I's for sale a couple of weeks ago, one to get running, the other for spare parts. And to get them fixed should the part not work you can go to:

http://www.polygraphsales.com

And get any parts you need.

Funny the 2 Diplomats seemed to have been sold. Makes one wonder who might have them.

   Regards  ....

[nonombre]

Just for the point of reference, why settle for just a sensor pad, when a whole machine can be had for under $30.00. And it can be made workable. Oh the possibilities !!  Link follows:

http://cgi.ebay.com/LAFAYETTE-INSTRUMEN-MINI-GRAPH-POLYGRAPH-LIE-DETECTOR_W0QQitemZ5877599227QQcategoryZ73364QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Or you can buy the whole detector, there were 2 LAFAYETTE Diplomat I's for sale a couple of weeks ago, one to get running, the other for spare parts. And to get them fixed should the part not work you can go to:

http://www.polygraphsales.com

And get any parts you need.

Funny the 2 Diplomats seemed to have been sold. Makes one wonder who might have them.

 Regards  ....

Forgive me for not quite letting this go, but I would really like to know...Do you personally own a polygraph movement sensor pad and if you do, what model polygraph instrument do you have it attached to?

Nonombre

[EosJupiter]

Forgive me for not quite letting this go, but I would really like to know...Do you personally own a polygraph movement sensor pad and if you do, what model polygraph instrument do you have it attached to?

Nonombre

NoNombre

I don't have a pad, TwoBlock does .....

Regards ...

[antrella]

Is this with regard to the butt sensor pad?

[EosJupiter]

antrella,

Yes,  I said TwoBlock made the statement and did the research with the pad. Ask him for more info, if interested.

Regards  

[nonombre]

antrella,

Yes,  I said TwoBlock made the statement and did the research with the pad. Ask him for more info, if interested.

Regards  

Twoblock,

Do you own a polygraph instrument?  Have you and Eosjupiter been "experimenting?"

Very interesting...

Nonombre
 

[EosJupiter]

NoNombre,

I will neither confirm nor deny those allegations.

But it does make one wonder !! hehehe  

And don't forget to read this threads main point too.

Link:
http://issues.org/20.1/faigman.html


Regards .....

[Twoblock]

Nonombre

I had decided to stop responding to your questions (or any of your posts) because every time I ask you ligit questions you cut-a-chogi. Don't ask me which ones for you know fully well.

Actually, it's none of your business if I and EosJupitor own a Lafayette or any other make. I will say this: I arranged a poker game at my house for a test. The censor pad showed movement every time a player was bluffing.