60% CT State Police Polygraph Failure Rate!

[EosJupiter]

They don't claim 98% accuracy - well most of them don't anyway. ......  General consensus I've heard is 80-90% - and that's probably assuming no countermeasures or drugs.

MrAugust

Well just by your response your most likely a polygrapher yourself. As someone without  a truly vested interest wouldn't know as much as you.  Why not just come on out and debate us without the hidden agenda. Its not as if we haven't had them before. But again your welcome to post and debate. And even at 80-90% (which is garbage) your still failing 10-20 innocent people for every 100 polygraph interrogations.
Just 1 failure of a truthful person, is one too many, and is not acceptable collateral damange. Especially if it destroys someones name and integrity because of a false positive. I get in trouble by George and other senior posters on this web site because of my opinions from time to time. But unless you have 100% accuracy in deception detection, then the whole premise of what the APA and polygraphy community represents is BS and nothing more than a sham. Believe what you want, but the fact is as another message thread rightly proves. Countermeasures can't be detected and polygraphs have no valid scientific basis in reality.  And the reason most of the polygraph community is so upset with this website is, it blows out  their little secrets to the general public. ( But lets not forget that it is the abuse of a polygrapher to Geroge, that made this website possible), Much to their dissatisfaction. And now in any polygraph  interrogation the Control question, " Have you researched anything on polygraphs", is now a standard question, or some derivation of the question. The best part is knowing that, no matter how much you may wish to catch those who know countermeasures, it isn't possible unless the examinee is weak and coughs up the information. As far as drugs are concerned, drug users get what they deserve unless they are under a doctors care. And if they are under a doctors care, the drugs in question, make them ineligible to take a polygraph anyways.

Regards

[George W. Maschke]

EosJupiter,

I see little basis for accusing MrAugust of being a polygraph examiner. I think it's perfectly understandable that someone who suspects his wife has been unfaithful might be eager for something -- anything -- that would offer some degree of confidence in the matter. Polygraphers profess to offer a high degree of confidence in situations where ascertaining the truth is difficult or even impossible. (After all who can truly prove that s/he has not been unfaithful to his/her spouse? One cannot prove the negative.) I don't find it surprising that someone in MrAugust's difficult situation might look to polygraphy or some other pseudoscience (such as voice stress "testing") for answers. Such wishful thinking ensures polygraphers a steady stream of customers.

[EosJupiter]

Ok George Point well taken, I will restrain myself.  

Its this wolverine personnality I have.  

And MrAugust I do apologize for the accusation. And I do hope you resolve this trust issue with your wife without the use the of a polygraph exam.

Regards

[MrAugust]

Ok George Point well taken, I will restrain myself.  

Its this wolverine personnality I have.  

And MrAugust I do apologize for the accusation. And I do hope you resolve this trust issue with your wife without the use the of a polygraph exam.

Regards

Dude I've never even seen a polygraph machine before - I'm just telling you what I've learned from information gathered.  And after speaking/writing with many people on both sides, it seems conclusive to me that as long as my wife is naive about the process (likely) then we should get an accurate result.

Yes, it is obviously a horrible way to resolve an issue - but if you were in my shoes and had to deal with what I've been through then you might understand.  Yes, we are also going to counseling.

Sorry to taint the board with my personal issues, but despite your apology I think you and some of the other folks, who unfortunately were in the bad 10-20%, are showing a bad side when you constantly accuse everyone who dares to challenge your assertions as polygraph examiners with agendas.

Even though I'm obviously skeptical of George's theories, I respectfully give him props for the tone of his last post.

[EosJupiter]

Mr August,

Yes, I am very robust in my opinions and actions in regards to polygraphy. And sometimes get taken to task for it. But until your the one sitting in the chair getting grilled, there is no way you can understand the situation. And my feelings are for your wife, in  that you are going to make her suffer mental torture. Not something I would do to someone I cherish in my life.

[mustbaliar]

...it seems conclusive to me that as long as my wife is naive about the process (likely) then we should get an accurate result.

MrAugust,

Naive subjects pass and fail the polygraph all the time.  How does naivete make the polygraph accurate?  I failed the polygraph twice as a naive subject, despite telling the truth each time.  Would I fail a third one knowing what I know now?  Absolutely not--because I would not participate in another polygraph.  Naive subjects also pass the polygraph, but they are the lucky ones.

Perhaps you meant to say that a naive subject might be more likely to admit to something during a polygraph if she believed that whatever she was hooked up to (polygraph, car battery, copier machine, toaster) was indeed a "lie detector."  Of course, if this subject has nothing to admit or calls the polygrapher's bluff, then it makes the whole procedure more of a farce than it already is, and innocent, honest individuals often face ridiculous accusations.  Hopefully your wife will not suffer that humiliation.  Hopefully she will be a lucky one.

Regards and good luck

[polyfool]

Mr. August,

You obviously did some research on posters accused of being polygraph examiners on this site, which might I add, has turned out to be the case in just about every instance. I'm just curious as to why in all your research on this site, you've walked away with the impression that  being an uninformed examinee results in accuracy? This site exists for the very reason that people who know virtually nothing about the process are failing their polygraphs despite being truthful.

[MrAugust]

Mr. August,

I'm just curious as to why in all your research on this site, you've walked away with the impression that  being an uninformed examinee results in accuracy?

Because in TLBTLD, for starters, it discusses this exact issue with the NRCC's conclusions during its 2002 report.

[MrAugust]

Mr August,

Yes, I am very robust in my opinions and actions in regards to polygraphy. And sometimes get taken to task for it. But until your the one sitting in the chair getting grilled, there is no way you can understand the situation. And my feelings are for your wife, in  that you are going to make her suffer mental torture. Not something I would do to someone I cherish in my life.

What if you thought she may have cheated on you and have no other way of knowing the truth.  Perhaps you should sit in the chair I'm sitting in, sir, believe me - it's less comfortable.

[polyfool]

Mr August,

Why are you wasting time going back and forth with the posters on this site? Don't you have a polygraph to schedule for your wife? Once you get the results, you'll have the rest of your life to wonder whether she cheated on you. According to your research, polygraphs are 80-90% accurate. That leaves a 10-20% doubt in your mind forever.  

[Twoblock]

Mr.August

I agree with polyfool.

You talk like God in AMOS. "For three transgressions and for four, I will not turn away the punishment of my wife". Is it in you to forgive?

Your mind is already made up. So go ahead and do it and destroy your wife's life then try to live with that the rest of your life. The "flip" of the polygraph is NOT going  to prove or disprove her guilt. OH sorry, you have the misguided belief that it's 90% or better. On the other hand, what if she is in the 10%?

[MrAugust]

The last 2 responses are just typical of how a lot of you folks think (and debate).

I just answered the question and explained why I believe it's accurate, and since there's no valid response the best thing to do is flame.

Polyfool why do YOU waste YOUR time on this site ?  That's the real question.  I'm dealing with a real time issue here while you are apparently dealing with some false positive bitterness that you're going to take out on every single person who dares to show you the truth.

[mustbaliar]

The last 2 responses are just typical of how a lot of you folks think (and debate).

I just answered the question and explained why I believe it's accurate, and since there's no valid response the best thing to do is flame.

Polyfool why do YOU waste YOUR time on this site ?  That's the real question.  I'm dealing with a real time issue here while you are apparently dealing with some false positive bitterness that you're going to take out on every single person who dares to show you the truth.

Don't take it too personally.  You have to understand that most of the members of this site have been bitten by the polygraph, in some form or another.

You initially came to this site asking for honest opinions about the polygraph, under the guise of a concerned husband wanting answers about his wife's possible misdeeds.  You said something to the effect of, "I really don't have a clue about the polygraph other than what I've read."  While that may be true, once you started to receive the honest answers and opinions you asked for, you immediately started with the typical pro-polygraph rhetoric that we are all too used to seeing on this site.  You got us hook, line, and sinker.  You sucked us into your debate and now here we are.  If you sense any frustration on our part it's because we would prefer that people just be honest up front about their position and start a dialog without the needless games, and indeed, without wasting our time.  

That is the best explanation I can give.  It would seem you already had your mind made up, even while posting your initial message to this board.  This is our perception, just as your perception is we are all "dealing with some false positive bitterness."  This is an emotional issue for many of us here, so when you come here asking us for our opinions, especially when it concerns the possible future of someone's marriage, you better believe we are going to give it to you hard and straight.  If you think we are bitter, wait and see what happens with your wife if she becomes a false-positive victim.

Regards and good luck

[Twoblock]

mustbaliar

MrAugust writes like Mercible. Not completely condeming, yet, but trolling just enough to draw responses. He mentions debate but he hasn't offered anything about the polygraph to debate. Could be him with a different ISP.

[MrAugust]

mustbaliar

He mentions debate but he hasn't offered anything about the polygraph to debate.

{sigh} For the umpteenth freaking time, read the findings in TLBTLD from the 1983 Congressional OTA report, and the 2002 NRCC report - read where it talks about accuracy rates in situations where there are no countermeasures attempted.  Then come back and tell me again then I haven't brought anything up for debate.

It's hysterical that now that I've done a little research and have formed some opinions that I'm being branded as a polygraph examiner.  I don't even know what these machines look like for crying out loud.

Listen, I won't take it personally and I appreciate that you were honest with me - but there really is not much debate happening here - just accusations that I'm making this whole story up or that I'm really some user whom I've never heard of.

To be blunt, the reason why I've "...made up (my) mind..." has a LOT to do with the fact that for the most part noone really attempts to debate anything on here except George and Drew.  At least when I disagree with them I can respect the fact that they are making a case, right or wrong, without being overemotional bitter flamers.