Re: Does this count as a (failed) polygraph?

[Skeptic]

Funny Feeling,

I think they'd have a hard time describing what transpired as a "failed" polygraph, since you never took one.  You simply withdrew your application at a point before your polygraph test.  What transpires in a polygraph "test" is wide open to interpretation, but the fact that you never took one is pretty clear-cut.  To most people, "taking a polygraph" means you get hooked up to the machine.  The pre-test phase alone, I would think, would be seen simply as an interview.

Skeptic

[Skeptic]

Funny-feeling,
See my modified comment, above.  Without having been hooked up to the machine, I would think the average person would say you haven't "taken a polygraph"; therefore, you couldn't have "failed" one.  I would imagine the FBI would describe it this way, as well.

You're much more likely to be questioned on why you withdrew from the process itself, IMHO.

Skeptic

[George W. Maschke]

I think your polygraph examination would have to be considered "incomplete" since there was no chart collection and no decision rendered.

It would be wise to file a Privacy Act request for all FBI records related to your application for employment to find out just how the polygraph session has been characterized.

[George W. Maschke]

See Chapter 5 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector for tips on how to file a comprehensive Privacy Act request for records related to your application, including all polygraph-related records.

I think it might be wise to wait a few days before filing, because if  I understand the law correctly, agencies are only required to disclose records that existed on the date of your request. It's possible that additional paperwork will be generated in the coming days.

[George W. Maschke]

An report that the examination is "incomplete" is definitely less prejudicial than a "deception indicated" outcome.

[Human Subject]

Your pre-test interview lasted 2 hours?  Did you have a security interview with another agent before your polygraph appointment?

My own interview was much, much shorter.

[Fair Chance]

I decided I didn't want the FBI position badly enough to risk having a failed polygraph on my record for future federal employment (i.e. I'd want to risk a failed polygraph only on a very important job, not this one).

Many polygraph proponents would say "good job" to have scared off someone who was not committed to be ready to sacrifice "their integrity" for the common good of the "FBI".  As a taxpayer, it is a shame to have spent so much money getting this person to be "conditionally accepted" only to lose them when they learn of the inappropriate use of the pre-screening polygraph.

I wish Funny Felling good luck in his endeavors to find work in the government.  We can use thinking people who talk to family and friends before making decisions that affect them for the rest of their lives.

I can only wonder of my own decision to go through having my reputation dragged through the mud only to be vindicated more than a year afterwards.  As I have told Marty on many occasions, the poor forensic quality of the pre-screening test does not reflect well on an organization that is suppose to protect my Constitutional Freedoms with the highest technology in the Nation.

Regards  

[Saidme]

Funny_Feeling

You stated in your text "I decided I didn't want the FBI position badly enough to risk having a failed polygraph on my record".

You never indicate why you think you might have failed the polygraph examination.  Was it because of past transgressions?  

[Human Subject]

You never indicate why you think you might have failed the polygraph examination.  Was it because of past transgressions?  

I can't speak for him, but let's get past the assumption that you will only fail a polygraph if you have committed transgressions and you lie about these acts during your test.

[Saidme]

Then don't speak for him.  I'm just asking him a question.

[Human Subject]

I didn't speak for him, as I explicitly said.

If you hadn't punctuated your question with that "cool" emoticon, I actually wouldn't have inferred anything from it.

Not to mention, if you want to ask him a question without anybody else chiming in, try sending him a message.  I'll comment on anything I want to.

[George W. Maschke]

Saidme,

Qualified, truthful applicants have much to fear from an FBI pre-employment polygraph examination. For special agent applicants, the failure rate is about 50%. Failing an FBI polygraph examination has lasting career consequences. See my article, "Just Say 'No' to FBI Polygraphs" for more on this.

Funny Feeling was wise to withdraw his/her application.

[Saidme]

George

Answer this question for me if you can.  If the failure rate is 50% for FBI applicants.  What percentage of those who failed would you say failed because of legitimate derogatory information in their past?  What percentage would you say were false positives?  I disagree to an extent with your statement "Failing an FBI polygraph examination has lasting career consequences".  I know several federal agents whom have failed FBI polygraph examinations and went on to have very successful careers in other federal and state agencies.  I agree that some have continued to have problems but I think those are exceptions to the rule.  FYI:  I'm in favor of pre-employment polygraph testing only if dergoatory information comes forward through a background investigation.  The test would then be a specific issue test.  Wouldn't you agree that would be a suitable use for polygraph?

[George W. Maschke]

Answer this question for me if you can.  If the failure rate is 50% for FBI applicants.  What percentage of those who failed would you say failed because of legitimate derogatory information in their past?  What percentage would you say were false positives?

The only FBI applicants who fail the polygraph because of "legitimate derogatory information in their past" are those who admit to the same. I do not know what percentage of applicants this is.

Everyone else who fails does so based on the outcome of a procedure that has no more diagnostic value than astrology or tea leaf reading.

I disagree to an extent with your statement "Failing an FBI polygraph examination has lasting career consequences".  I know several federal agents whom have failed FBI polygraph examinations and went on to have very successful careers in other federal and state agencies.  I agree that some have continued to have problems but I think those are exceptions to the rule.

If you would privately put me in touch with these individuals (or put them in touch with me), I would be willing to reconsider my conclusions based on new information.

FYI:  I'm in favor of pre-employment polygraph testing only if dergoatory information comes forward through a background investigation.  The test would then be a specific issue test.  Wouldn't you agree that would be a suitable use for polygraph?

No. I don't believe that specific-issue polygraph examinations of job seekers based on derogatory information developed in the course of a background investigation is a suitable use for CQT polygraphy, either, because it still has no scientific basis and no diagnostic value whatsoever.

[Saidme]

George

Your decision not to use polygraph in light of derogatory information is disheartening.  I think it's probably for the best you didn't make it into law enforcement.  With the liberal leaning courts and the obstacles already put in place by our legal system, tools such as polygraph are excellent avenues to resolve criminal specific issues.  Even your coveted NAS report noted criminal specific issue testing is "better than chance".  Your failed exam with the FBI must be eating away at you more than we all know.  Regards.