The kind of people that this forum draws.

[nonombre]

If a truthful person is going to be branded a liar by the polygrapher anyway, then why not use countermeasures and inhance the chances of passing.

And what of the truthful people, who would have been "branded" truthful, except that their attempts at countermeasures (taught by you and others) have now "branded" them "Purposeful non-cooperation" and have therefore cost them everything?

What do you say to them Mr. Twoblock?

Perhaps you consider them to be "Martyrs" for the Antipolygraph cause?  "Acceptable losses" for the greater good?

Regards,

Nonombre

[alterego1]

So, we are back to the question I keep asking you, which I know you can't really answer: Where are the criminals and applicants who used the information on this site to beat the polygraph while lying to the relevant questions?  

This is an easy one to answer....."The first rule of Fight Club, is that one does not talk about Fight Club........".......oh sorry, I got side tracked for a moment.

What I meant to say is, "The first rule of countermeasures is that one makes no damaging admissions."  George has already hinted that this board may be monitored, so no one who values his job or future job would come on here and run his mouth talking about how he successfully used countermeasures to defeat the poly.

But if you use the search function, you will indeed see several brave individuals who have come on here and given their testimony.

"Regards"
(Is nonombre the one responsible for making this fucking phrase so cliché on this message board?)

[Bill Crider]

nonombre,

what do you say to folks who waited their whole life for their shot at a LE career and get booted by a false positive and havent tried CMs?

what do you say t George, whose career was ruined by a stranger who called him a spy after knowing him for a few hours?

I didnt try CMs for 2 reasons. #1-it didnt seem right, tho I have since changed my mind about that and #2-I didnt think trying it without knowing enough about what a good chart looks like would work.

[nonombre]

"Regards"
(Is nonombre the one for making this fucking phrase so cliché on this message board?)

No actually I learned it from Drew Richardson.  I found it to be a civil way to end a post and to let the other party know you do not hold his opinions against him.  

BTW, you really shouldn't swear on a message board.  It tends to showcase your ignorance.

Regards,

Nonombre

[cesium_133]

Why would you come here and try to scare readers with, Oh if you DON'T read "The Lie Behind the Lie Detector" and follow its advice, you will fail and fail badly?

I haven't heard Eos or anyone else say that.  They say, correctly, that coming here and learning what George has put out is a good idea.  I am sure people with quick thinking and good logic have beaten the poly without George's help.

I don't need to scare anybody, EosJ.  They are already scared when they come here.  This site further feeds their fears...

That fear makes a person the lemming you wish them to be, CryBaby.  It renders them susceptible to your lie that the poly can detect lies.  It cannot; it is a fancy BFB machine.  Only confessions can demonstrate lies through this method.

By the way, when I had read TLBTLD and learned it all, I went into subsequent polys much more relaxed.  I used CM's without regret, and without fail.  And I passed when I might well have not    In fact, I cha cha'ed in and out with the lovely knowledge that I had beaten the machine and a polyboy who thought he was invincible.  I don't think I would have otherwise, but righteousness was upheld when I did.  There you go, one testimonial for George's site and against your position.  I am sure I speak for many others.

You may ask, Where is the evidence that polygraphers can detect the countermeasures advocated on this site?  Well, where are all the people who actually committed a serious criminal act and then passed the polygraph by following the advice on this site?  Funny, but we don't hear from them, do we?

*Waves hand frantically*

Where IS the CM beef?  Where's the beef?  Show the studies, CryBaby.  We asked you first    Answering a question with a question isn't an affirmative answer at all.

No, I have not committed any serious criminal offense, but piddly stuff that someone could use to nitpick me out of my current job.  So, ok, I haven't robbed anyone, but I passed notwithstanding some peccadilloes.  Ones that should not count against a person.  And you're hearing from me.

And if thousands of people come to this site, take the advice, and then pass the polygraph, why do none of them come on this site and admit that they actually passed the polygraph while lying their asses off with regard to relevant issues?

I have seen quite a few come here expressing thanks.  I would not expect more than a few of the whole number to do so, though.  Had I only 1 poly to deal with, I would have read the information here, passed, and -maybe- sent George a private note.  I would not have bothered posting... why?  I would have had to create an account, which takes 2 minutes that I would have rather used elsewhere on the WWW.

I believe that the advice on this site may serve as a placebo for the innocent, but nothing more.  If it makes them feel better, that's fine and dandy, but I've seen their world come crashing down when they've been caught and disqualified.

Believe as you will, CryBaby.  There's no placebo here; it's the real McCoy.  My world has failed to crash down yet, and I used more than 1 suggestion from TLBTLD.  If someone louses up their CM's, well, risk that or risk a false positive.  I would rather lose having the reins in my hands.  However, I don't go in planning to lose, and I have not.

I have also heard many reasons why you polyboys won't take Dr. Richardson's challenge.  Why not be the man and do it?  Don't make excuses- don't beg off because of lab this, or situation that.  Excuses are like ani.  Everyone has one, and most smell.  If you can detect CM's, and you say you can at better than chance, do it.

You and your pals must hate the doc, he being a defector from the cause.  Taking all that precious, apocryphal knowledge with him and handing it to the enemy like Benedict Arnold.  Blowing the whistle.

While I think of it, please tell us all your opinion of EPPA.  Good or bad?  I know it cost you and your drinking buddies money.  If you agree with it, why shouldn't it be applied across the board (please be specific)?  Also, if you agree with the Act, why was it okay to use the poly in employment screening prior to its passage, or was that a mistake?

If you disagree with it, why?  And why is your APA not trying its damnedest to get the act repealed for the greater good of mankind?  Because, like the tobacco companies, you know that what you peddle is harmful.  Big Tobacco got kicked off the TV in 1970, and to this day they have never challenged it.  Why?  Even though they would win, they know that they would be exposed yet again for the scoundrels they are.

Knowledge is power.  I have the former, and I feel the latter.  You and yours cannot pull the hood over my eyes, CryBaby.  Please digest...

[alterego1]

BTW, you really shouldn't swear on a message board.  It tends to showcase your ignorance.

Regards,

Nonombre

Awwww, come on bro.....lots of geniuses swear.  Just look at Robin Williams!

"regards"
alterego

[Sergeant1107]

Nonombre,

I don't see much of a difference in the end result between a person answering all the questions on a polygraph honestly and still failing, and a person attempting countermeasures and being accused of "purposeful non-cooperation" and failing because of that.

In fact, I think it would be easier to explain away a "purposeful non-cooperation" label on subsequent job applications than it would be to explain a "deception indicated" result.  

It is not surprising that you and other polygraph examiners advocate the old chestnut:  "just tell the truth and trust the polygraph."  For anyone who follows your advice and fails it is little consolation if their polygrapher thinks, "At least they failed honestly."

Were I to take a polygraph again I would tell the truth and I would use countermeasures.  From past experience simply telling the truth results in a "deception indicated" score 75% of the time.  I could hardly do much worse telling the truth and attempting countermeasures.  At least I would feel as though I wasn't totally helpless in deciding my fate.

[Twoblock]

cesium_133

Do not expect specific, truthful answers to specific questions. Very, very few will be forthcoming. You will get a few lame answers, maybe.

nonombre

If an applicant comes to you or any other federal polygrapher knowing that they have less than a 50% chance of passing the poly because of your weeding out process, truthful or not, then they should expect the odds are against them and their LE employment lives are ruined. There is no way in hell that this kind of percentage has used or sold drugs or have been/are spies. Yet, you people, individually, ruin their lives. Before you people die, you had better get on your knees and pray for a whole bunch of forgiveness.

As to countermeasures - if an applicant correctly uses mental countermeasures (or not) and you accuse him/her of such, then you are saying "I can read your mind.  I AM THE ONE AND ONLY AUTHORITY HERE. THEREFORE, YOU ARE OUT OF HERE". Doesn't that make you feel powerful??

As to the ones who admit to using countermeasures,
they are week and shouldn't be in LE. However, you have written that many who confesses such, you work them through it and they pass. They used deception and you worked them through it and they pass?? Hmmmm??

[polyfool]

I believe that this site has good intentions on keeping honest people from failing polygraphs, but it kind of sickens me the kind of people who come here and what they come here for. Before visiting this site and were unaware of the inaccuracy of polygraphs, they probably believed that it technically tells the difference between lie and truth. Take sex offenders on parole/probation for example, do you honestly believe they came to this site seeking information about the accuracy of polygraph tests or how to not fail while telling the truth.  I guess it is possible, but most likely not.  They most likely want to know a way they can stay out of jail and not have their recidivism be discovered.  So they can continue to prey upon the weak to satisfy their disgusting desires.  Although they have open access to the book like everyone else, how can you not have a guilty conscience about providing further assitance to these types of people.  I think its disgusting and personally hope they go back to prison and get gangbanged in the shower.

Private Snowball,

While I can understand how the thought of a child molester being allowed to roam free in society while continuing to prey on the weakest of victims sickens you, you are missing the point when it comes to the polygraph. Simply put, it is not reliable. That means child molesters under investigation for crimes they indeed have committed will walk after passing a polygraph. Convicted molesters may pass or fail as part of probation, regardless of whether they've victimized another child. Blame those who are using an unreliable tool and system, not the founders of this site.