Failed due to countermeasures

[Evan S]

jw0001:

I've never taken a pre-employment polygraph for a federal agency so I can't speak from experience, but other posters have stated that there's nothing wrong asking for a retest even if the chances are small; also you can apply to other agencies,  since it's been suggested a failed polygraph at one agency does not necessarily mean you'll fail at a different agency (but you will probably be asked if you've been previously polygraphed.)

Regards, Evan

[Wandersmann]

But when one engages in CMs, he/she is engaging in moral misconduct (for lack of a better term).  Its' one thing to attempt CMs in order to try to hide a deceptive result.  It's a completely different thing to engage in CMs to "help oneself".  The vast majority of three-letter agency employees/applicants do not attempt to "help themselves".  Those who do are telling us, "I will cheat if it helps me", even if they've done no wrong.  It shows a clear lack of integrity.  What else will they cheat at?  Violating a suspect's rights?  Falsifying an agent's report?

Protecting a hard earned good reputation against being falsely labeled as dishonorable by pseudo-science is in no way "cheating".

Violating a suspect's rights?  Falsifying an agent's report?

Speaking of falsifying a report and violating victims rights....nobody does that better than a polygraph examiner.  Read some actual accounts about how the East German Stasi used mental torture against its victims and then look at today's polygraph practices.  No difference. 

[Standground]

If you dress well for an interview it is commended; if you shower for an interview, it is necessary.  If you calm yourself for an interrogation (ie polygraph) it's not, you're a cad??? If the thing is soooo accurate, there should be no concern re countermeasures, or any other tactic that be employed.  Otherwise we should just roll out of bed without combing our hair or brushing our teeth to show up for an interview.  Polygraphs are unfair.  Period.

[xenonman]

So here's my horror story.  I'll keep it short and sweet, just looking for input.  About three weeks ago I took the poly for a federal agency.  He starts off the interview asking if had taken a polygraph before and if I had done any research on the topic.  I have taken one polygraph before and passed it and explained that the only research I had done was reading everyone's horror story on another forum.  He said that is good because most people who go looking online for advice end up failing the exam.  No issues there, on to the exam. 

So we go through the entire exam twice with the second time me having to repeat the last word in the question followed by yes or no.  Twice he walks out to confer with "quality control."  The second time he returns and begins the interrogation and starts accusing me of being deceptive during a few of the more ridiculous questions.  Eventually I ask the guy if the responses he is seeing is due do what I am doing in between questions.  During the 10-20 seconds between questions I would think of irrelevant things i.e. childhood memories, lunch, my dogs, etc. and stare at the wallpaper trying to make shapes out of it, much like cloud watching.  I did this will the sole purpose of calming myself down, not to influence the outcome of the exam as he put it.  Not only did I see this as a normal reaction, but it was also advice given to me by a state agency's recruiter before taking their polygraph.  The recruiter told us not to dwell on the question or go looking for answers that would make us second guess ourselves.  So, again I see nothing wrong with what I did.  He continues to grill me and insist that I was doing it to influence the outcome of the exam.  At this point I was getting a little pissed off and was about to start arguing, but I decided that if I stood any chance at continuing I just needed to accept it and go with the flow.  So that's what I did.  He even gave me the option to write an apology to HQ for using countermeasures, which I wrote.  In the end, I bent over and, for the sake of possibly moving on, admitted what I had done and wrote the apology.  As we were walking out, he kept reiterating what a great candidate I was, that this was unfortunate, and hopefully HQ decides to give me another shot.

Obviously, I'm writing this because I didn't get another shot.  However, to this day I still feel like what I did should not be considered as a countermeasure. 

Am I blacklisted because of my admission?  Sorry for the rant, it was longer than I expected.

Say good-bye, at least to Langley!   lol

[Australian]

Having just stumbled upon this website today, I must admit to total incredulity at this thread.  Not in relation to the original poster, but regarding the jerk 'Quickfix' who appears to figure that you're guilty until proven innocent as well as apparently believing in 'technology' that has not only been proven totally unreliable but is not trusted almost anywhere in the world, with the exception of the US.

'Quickfix', your pseudonym suits.  Do you ever have trouble looking in the mirror when you get home from the daily grind of using fake technology to elicit fake responses to fake questions, or are you really a 'true believer'?  Do you also believe in Scientology's 'E-meter', which is allegedly the same basic technology?  For that matter, why don't you just recommend torture?  It gets the same quality of results.  Although I suppose that would probably require another four day training course.

Have you heard of the scientific method?  The reason I am asking, is that what you have posted in this thread is so utterly anti-scientific (and in fact close to sociopathic) as to render your utterances totally valueless to this casual reader.

I would be interested to hear exactly what 'qualifications' are required for your chosen form of quackery.


P.S. to Administrator - apologies if I have broken your board's rules, or failed to maintain the standards that you apply here.  As stated at the beginning of my comment, I have just stumbled upon your site, and while I have not yet seen the rules I could not remain silent about the jerk and their obvious problems.  I did at least try to temper my language (although I assume a polygraph test administered by the jerk could easily be manipulated into saying "that's a lie").

[Wandersmann]

I would be interested to hear exactly what 'qualifications' are required for your chosen form of quackery.

Loved your post Australian.  I have been wondering why we haven't heard from Quickfix in awhile.  It dawned on me recently that Quickfix has identified himself (anonymously) as a US Government official.  Thus, when he speaks as he does on this site he is representing the US Government.  Having been a US Government official myself I know that speaking on behalf of the Government without proper authorization can get a person fired, especially when using vulgar or obscene language.  Despite the fact that the polygraph folks in the government make up the rules as they go and no one in authority has the moral courage to check them, perhaps it is slowly dawning on Quickfix that he might be playing with fire.

[xenonman]

I would be interested to hear exactly what 'qualifications' are required for your chosen form of quackery.

Loved your post Australian.  I have been wondering why we haven't heard from Quickfix in awhile.  It dawned on me recently that Quickfix has identified himself (anonymously) as a US Government official.  Thus, when he speaks as he does on this site he is representing the US Government.  Having been a US Government official myself I know that speaking on behalf of the Government without proper authorization can get a person fired, especially when using vulgar or obscene language.  Despite the fact that the polygraph folks in the government make up the rules as they go and no one in authority has the moral courage to check them, perhaps it is slowly dawning on Quickfix that he might be playing with fire.

From what I've gleaned from my years of watching these boards, just the fact that he is accessing an anti-polygraph forum, and one with so many intelligence community rejects as its denizens, could in itself place his continued federal employable in considerable jeopardy!
Oh well, he's no great loss I'd say!

[quickfix]

Thus, when he speaks as he does on this site he is representing the US Government.  Having been a US Government official myself I know that speaking on behalf of the Government without proper authorization can get a person fired, especially when using vulgar or obscene language.  Despite the fact that the polygraph folks in the government make up the rules as they go and no one in authority has the moral courage to check them, perhaps it is slowly dawning on Quickfix that he might be playing with fire.

Federal employees have the same First Amendment rights as anyone else.  Any opinions expressed on this website are my own, and not as a U.S. government official.  Amazing how a former government employee can be so dim-witted as to not know anything about freedom of speech.  And BTW, my superiors know I surf this site and make comments.  They too, are familiar with the First Amendment.

Oh well, he's no great loss I'd say!

Neither are you.  A CIA wannabe-who-never-was.

And Aussie:  did the dingo eat your baby?

[Wandersmann]

Federal employees have the same First Amendment rights as anyone else.  Any opinions expressed on this website are my own, and not as a U.S. government official.

Nope, you're wrong.  You don't have the same First Amendment rights.  While you were sleeping in that boring legal class before you got your badge they told you that you give up some of your rights in this profession (law enforcement, not polygraph).  When I served, if a real investigator publicly taunted a subject about going to jail and delighted in his misery, like you have done, he would have been fired.  That your superiors are in cahoots doesn't surprise me.  That's how lynch mobs and kangaroo courts operate.  The fact that you are trolling these sites mean you know you are involved in a scam and you're trying to protect it at all costs.  If someone was attacking the science behind fingerprints and DNA, those professionals wouldn't even give it a second thought because they know beyond a doubt their science is real.   You and your polygraph thugs are enjoying the fruits of corruption but some day you will be relegated to the same historical trash heap as the idiots that burned witches in Salem. 

[quickfix]

When I served, if a real investigator publicly taunted a subject about going to jail and delighted in his misery, like you have done, he would have been fired.

When you served?  When was that?  Before J. Edgar Hoover?   

[Wandersmann]

When you served?  When was that?  Before J. Edgar Hoover?

Another childish ad hominem response.  I love it !  Keep 'em coming Quickfix.  You provide the visitors to this site real insight into the mentality of a government polygraph examiner.  You are the best thing that ever happened to the anti-polygraph cause. 

[Aunty Agony]

...I must admit to total incredulity...regarding the jerk 'Quickfix' who appears to figure that you're guilty until proven innocent...

You'll have to forgive Quickfix -- logic is punishable by electroshock on his planet.

He is one of those unfortunates who loves to get into an argument but has only a cargo-cult grasp of what an argument is, so all he can do is sort of make loud argument-like noises.  Don't try to engage him on the subject of justice, because he doesn't know the meaning of the word.

Don't believe me?  Allow Aunty to demonstrate.

Hey, Quickfix!  What does "justice" mean?

[Wandersmann]

When you served?  When was that?  Before J. Edgar Hoover?

I forgot to mention Quickfix, I believe your comment reflected age discrimination against me.  All that matters is that I am offended and therefore you are guilty.  You need to take another one of those on-line EEO courses that the government mandates you take. 

[quickfix]

Hey, Quickfix!  What does "justice" mean?

Doug Williams sentenced to 2 years in prison.  How's that for justice!

[Aunty Agony]

Hey, Quickfix!  What does "justice" mean?

Doug Williams sentenced to 2 years in prison.  How's that for justice!

See? I told you doesn't know.

-Aunty.