FBI Poly

[magic-cat]

I was told to schedule 2-3 hours.  My polygrapher got me fairly quickly and took me in the room.  

It was just relevant questions and throw away questions, (are you sitting down).  She called them comparison questions.  They focused on espionage mostly with the two drug questions.  He read over the questions, explained the polygraph procedure, had me sign a release and hooked me up.

There was no 'calibrating' test.

I was not nervous.  I had read this site and just remembered that it was all a hoax and she couldn't measure anything, and if they could they would use a polygraph and not do the background investigation.  

I felt I did well.  At the end she said I had two problems, drugs and if I had been careless with intel in my previous job.  We did it again.  She went out after each set and came back in fairly quickly.  

Suddenly she unhooked me and said it looked good except for those two questions and could I come back tomorrow for a retest.  I could.  She said i was to think about the questions i had had trouble with and see if I could identify what had bothered me.  

The whole thing took 50 minutes.

Next day she took me back to the booth and asked me if I'd thought about what had bothered me.  I said I could think of nothing except I had anticipated scepticism about the drug question.  Nope, never used, no girlfriend had ever used, no roommate, never sold, never knew of a drug sale, etc...no, no, no.  I also explained the failsafes at my last job that prevented carelessness.  Either you wanted to sneak out material and went to a lot of effort or you followed procedure.

She seemed to drop that line of inquiry.  The second day was more life style stuff, the drugs again, was I going to be truthful, had I cheated in college, lied on loan apps, lied on FBI app, misused sick leave, that sort of stuff.  This day the pressure cuff was on so tightly my arm turned black and the breathing tubes pinched.  I was intensely uncomfortable.

Went out after a while and came back and said a question was bothering me--the loan application question.  Poly-ed for a while, went out, came back.  Do it again.  Lecture about telling her anything that was bothering me, 'because something obviously is'.  Went out, I thought I heard her say in the hall, "Looks good"  She might have said, "Looks good but..."  Came back in and polyed again, went out then came back and unhooked me and told me I was having trouble with a couple questions about contact with foreign agents and intel services.  Maybe I hadn't disclosed something, just forgot.  Or maybe I knew a foreigner not associated with any government but that was bothering me.  Or maybe I knew a foreigner on the internet or a friend who worked in a foreign government but maybe not in intel, maybe in social services or something. No, no, no.

Well, how do you explain your irregularities (how does she explain why it's always a different question that's a problem?--no I didn't say it).  I couldn't  explain it.  Well, she had to send it to DC and she wasn't sure about these charts.  If there was any kind of explanation I could give, it would really help.  Sorry, I can't explain it.   Okay, well, we'll see. (Sad shake of head here).  I should hear in a couple weeks.

And it was over. It took an hour and a half.

I suspect i passed.  Any comment?  A week and a half has passed and I wonder how they are going to tell me?  By phone, letter?

[Johnn]

Seems to me that the polygrapher needs more course hours on how to "interpret" charts.    Obviously she didn't know what she was doing.
I had mine (FBI) two weeks ago and haven't heard anything as well.  But they did tell me that there was definitely a discrepancy with the drug usage question.  Ridiculous.

[Bill Crider]

just call your App cooordinator and ask. as soon as it gets QA-ed in Washington, the result is in the system. usually 10 days or so. the AC can look it up for you on the spot if you catch them at their desk.

[JB933]

A lot of people seem to have been accused of lying during the drug questions.  The nimrod that did my test accused me of lying about undetected crimes, which I have no reason to lie about.  This is sad.  

[George W. Maschke]

magic-cat,

Questions such as, "Are you sitting down?" or "Are the lights on in this room?" are irrelevant questions, and not comparison or "control" questions. It is a known counter-countermeasure for the polygrapher to falsely describe irrelevant questions as being comparison/"control" questions in an attempt to misdirect the examinee. This technique is mentioned at p. 158 of the 4th edition of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.

While the question about lying on your FBI application was a relevant question, the questions about cheating in school, lying on a loan application, and misusing sick leave were all probable-lie "control" questions.

For more on the screening technique used by the FBI and other federal law enforcement agencies, see the Department of Defense Polygraph Institute's Law Enforcement Pre-Employment Test examiner's guide:

http://antipolygraph.org/documents/dodpi-lepet.pdf

Because of the mildness of your post-test interrogation, I suspect that you either passed or were at worst "inconclusive."

[Johnn]

A lot of people seem to have been accused of lying during the drug questions.  The nimrod that did my test accused me of lying about undetected crimes, which I have no reason to lie about.  This is sad.  

I wonder why.  Have a lot of people really used drugs in their life times?  I doubt that most FBI applicants are like the "common masses".  Otherwise, why should 95% of the people who apply for FBI jobs be accused of drug usage - that's insane.  I am beginning to think it's some kind of conspiracy between the person who gives you the psi interview and the polygrapher.  If the person who gives you the psi interview doesn't see you as "one of them" then they probably whisper to the polygrapher as they hand him your charts, "Hey, listen, - not one of us... this person has never travelled, so don't go accusing them of espionage, however, they claim they've never taken drugs, use that instead and weed 'im out".
How else would you explain George's missing charts?  They probably dont' want someone else (private polygrapher) to subject the charts to other interpretation.

[Bill Crider]

i think they just dont care if its accurate. it makes them feel good if they bust 1 in 10000 people who actually are drug lords and trying to get into the FBI. there are plenty of applicants to replace the 9999 who are falsely accused

[polyfool]

I wonder why.  Have a lot of people really used drugs in their life times?  I doubt that most FBI applicants are like the "common masses".  Otherwise, why should 95% of the people who apply for FBI jobs be accused of drug usage - that's insane.  I am beginning to think it's some kind of conspiracy between the person who gives you the psi interview and the polygrapher.  If the person who gives you the psi interview doesn't see you as "one of them" then they probably whisper to the polygrapher as they hand him your charts, "Hey, listen, - not one of us... this person has never travelled, so don't go accusing them of espionage, however, they claim they've never taken drugs, use that instead and weed 'im out".
How else would you explain George's missing charts?  They probably dont' want someone else (private polygrapher) to subject the charts to other interpretation.

Johnn,

Whether right or wrong, the truth is that at one time or another, MOST people, NOT ALL have at the very least experimented with marijuana at some point in their lives. Even though it's not something that most people go around talking about, you would probably be shocked to learn how truly common it is. Obviously, I'm not talking about hard drugs or regular drug use as these experiences would be much less common.

If there appears to be a problem with your test, the first thing the FBI is going to go after is what you've given them or in your case, what you haven't given them. So, if you tell them you've used drugs a few times, the agency would give you the benefit of the doubt unless  there are problems with your test, in which case, the examiner will go after you to admit to more drug use. In your case, you've never used drugs--probably an automatic red flag because it stands out from the norm--I know, a sad commentary on society. Accusing you of lying about drug use is the only thing your examiner had to go on. Being accused of lying to the drug questions is just about the only reason applicants fail. Since FBI polygraph testing includes one series regarding drugs and lying on the application and a second series on national security, there's nothing else to fail. I suppose the agency finds it more acceptable to "fail" applicants regarding drug use because accusing half of the agency's applicants of being spies would surely raise a red flag as to the validity of its choice to subject applicants to polygraph screenings.    

From what I gather, most applicants fail regarding the drug questions while the employees who fail tend to have more problems with national security issues.

I agree with Bill--the agency knows good and well that it's falsely accusing applicants of lying about using and/or selling drugs. However, it doesn't care because it figures that it's worth it if the procedure is successful in keeping out some actually witholding information. The FBI can afford to do this because it has so many applicants for special agent positions that it doesn't care about the collateral damage it leaves behind in the process. Sad, but true.

I believe that polygraph screening is a horrible way to choose employees because it weeds out the very honest, like yourself Johnn and the countless others who have posted similar stories on this site.  

[Johnn]

I agree with Bill--the agency knows good and well that it's falsely accusing applicants of lying about using and/or selling drugs. However, it doesn't care because it figures that it's worth it if the procedure is successful in keeping out some actually witholding information. The FBI can afford to do this because it has so many applicants for special agent positions that it doesn't care about the collateral damage it leaves behind in the process.   

It's ridiculous the way the FBI relies on the polygraph to weed out applicants, considering that most dishonest people would look up information on the polygraph and pass it using counter methods.  I'm willing to bet that the majority of us who have "failed" are the 100% honest people.  We are suckers who did not look up information on the polygraph  because the FBI told us not to.  

It's common sense- which the FBI doesn't seem to have these days, that if I were a drug user/dealer or whatever they want to accuse me of, I'd make sure I'd prepare myself by using counter methods.   Before anyone starts trashing this sight, just remember that counter  methods are found everywhere not just on this sight.  Most likely, one can go to their local library and find books on polygraphs, and believe me, if I were a drug user with something to hide, that would have been the first thing I would have done.    

Funny how I related my experience in the workplace and my co-workers were laughing.  They were making fun of the whole thing and imagining funny things of  what they would have said if they would have been in my shoes.  In essence, they couldn't believe how the FBI messed up again.   Which reminds me- I'd rather be in the company of my co-workers who know me for who I am instead of some organization who treats me like a crack pimp.

[mustbaliar]

Magic,

Your experience sounds very similar to my first FBI poly experience.  Once my polygrapher realized he wasn't getting any admissions from me, he ended the session and told me that he'd send the results off to headquarters (DC), but he couldn't make any promises.  So if I use my experience as a measuring stick, I'd say your chances of having passed are slim.  It turned out that I "failed" that exam and the subsequent "retest."  But since this isn't quite an exact "science" an inclusive or passing result is very possible for you.  

You can try contacting your AC listed on your conditional letter of appointment, but don't hold your breath.  I tried calling mine several times and never heard from him.  

Good luck.

[polyfool]

It's ridiculous the way the FBI relies on the polygraph to weed out applicants, considering that most dishonest people would look up information on the polygraph and pass it using counter methods.  I'm willing to bet that the majority of us who have "failed" are the 100% honest people.  We are suckers who did not look up information on the polygraph  because the FBI told us not to.  

It's common sense- which the FBI doesn't seem to have these days, that if I were a drug user/dealer or whatever they want to accuse me of, I'd make sure I'd prepare myself by using counter methods.   Before anyone starts trashing this sight, just remember that counter  methods are found everywhere not just on this sight.  Most likely, one can go to their local library and find books on polygraphs, and believe me, if I were a drug user with something to hide, that would have been the first thing I would have done.    

Funny how I related my experience in the workplace and my co-workers were laughing.  They were making fun of the whole thing and imagining funny things of  what they would have said if they would have been in my shoes.  In essence, they couldn't believe how the FBI messed up again.   Which reminds me- I'd rather be in the company of my co-workers who know me for who I am instead of some organization who treats me like a crack pimp.

Johnn:

You're exactly right--those who have something to hide would learn how to beat the test beforehand. That's just common sense. Not only did I not research the polygraph before my so-called test, I didn't even ask people I know about it who would have enlightened me. I didn't think to even mention it to them. I thought I didn't need to-- that it was simply a matter of tell the truth and pass--WRONG.

My co-workers have also teased me about my polygraph failure. They  throw out the occasional joke, though it has taken awhile to joke about it because they witnessed the devastating effects the experience had on me. At first, they thought my interrogation was just a part of the test because they know me and the accusations were just so out there.  Once they found out it was for real, it just made the FBI look foolish and inept in their eyes. They think the agency is a total joke and I can't say that I blame them. They way I look at it, at least they have learned about the polygraph through my experience and, who knows, perhaps one day, it will save them from making the same mistake I did when I signed away my rights thinking that I was submitting to a reliable, valid scientific testing procedure. Before I took my poly, I considered it to be the same as undergoing drug screening.

You're right. You're much better off working with people who know you and appreciate your honesty and integrity.
Things will work out much better for you in the end, even though it may not always seem that way now.  

[Johnn]

Johnn:

You're exactly right--those who have something to hide would learn how to beat the test beforehand. That's just common sense. Not only did I not research the polygraph before my so-called test, I didn't even ask people I know about it who would have enlightened me. I didn't think to even mention it to them. I thought I didn't need to-- that it was simply a matter of tell the truth and pass--WRONG.

My co-workers have also teased me about my polygraph failure. They  throw out the occasional joke, though it has taken awhile to joke about it because they witnessed the devastating effects the experience had on me. At first, they thought my interrogation was just a part of the test because they know me and the accusations were just so out there.  Once they found out it was for real, it just made the FBI look foolish and inept in their eyes. They think the agency is a total joke and I can't say that I blame them. They way I look at it, at least they have learned about the polygraph through my experience and, who knows, perhaps one day, it will save them from making the same mistake I did when I signed away my rights thinking that I was submitting to a reliable, valid scientific testing procedure. Before I took my poly, I considered it to be the same as undergoing drug screening.

You're right. You're much better off working with people who know you and appreciate your honesty and integrity.
Things will work out much better for you in the end, even though it may not always seem that way now.  

At this point, I am just trying to get over the mental anguish and trauma from being accused of something that I've never done.  I had to take an exam yesterday for one of my graduate classes, and during the exam  the polygraph experience would play in my mind.  I frequently had to exercise great control to get my mind back on track.

[Sergeant1107]

Not only did I not research the polygraph before my so-called test, I didn't even ask people I know about it who would have enlightened me. I didn't think to even mention it to them. I thought I didn't need to-- that it was simply a matter of tell the truth and pass--WRONG.

I thought the same thing during all four of my polygraphs.  I wasn't worried about that aspect of them because I had every intention of telling the truth, and I believed that if I told the truth I would pass.  

Looking back I see how naïve I was – thinking that a machine and its operator would be able to determine if I was being deceptive or truthful.

I think that the reason the polygraph simply cannot be accurate is that you can never know what someone is thinking.  You can guess; you can surmise; you can render an opinion; but you can never truly know for sure.  Not even with a cooperative subject who tells you afterwards what he was thinking.  You might believe him, but you will never know for sure.

[Johnn]

Since FBI polygraph testing includes one series regarding drugs and lying on the application and a second series on national security, there's nothing else to fail.

I was thinking -albeit two weeks later , that their series do not make any sense.  Because for example, if one fails the drug usage or the national security, then, doesn't it make one fail the lying on the application as well? So if one is accused of either or, shouldn't they be accused of lying on the application as well?  

[polyfool]

I was thinking -albeit two weeks later , that their series do not make any sense.  Because for example, if one fails the drug usage or the national security, then, doesn't it make one fail the lying on the application as well? So if one is accused of either or, shouldn't they be accused of lying on the application as well?  

Johnn:

I asked myself this same question over and over after my  rude awakening to the polygraph. There's no rhyme or reason to the FBI's polygraph process. The whole thing is ridiculous beyond belief. If you are looking for sound logic in the FBI, you are definitely looking in the wrong place.  

Of course, it makes sense that if one is accused of lying about drugs and/or national security that he/she would also be accused of lying on the application. I was also accused of lying about drugs, but was not accused of lying on my application--both relevant questions within the same series for me. If one "fails" only a single question within the series, he/she fails the entire series. There is no differentiation in the final polygraph report, which means you never really know which questions you actually failed because they are redacted. One only learns the final determination as to whether he/she is NDI, DI or INC on  each series.