Failed FBI poly! Now what?!

[NoWayMan]

I took the FBI poly for a support position today that I applied for 8 mos ago and they said I failed!!  I was told I was lying on a few of the CI questions!  WTF?  I wasn't nervous at all but I was getting pissed off when the examiner kept asking me if there was "something I wanted to tell him".  I have friends in the FBI and when I told them I failed the CI portion of the poly they were blown away.  I'm an 18 yr Army Intel Officer in the reserves and I've had a TS/SCI for over 17 yrs.  The poly guy kept coming back to the "passing information to foreign nationals" question and I kept telling them I don't even KNOW any foreign nationals.  My FBI buddies said I'll most likely be called back for a retest but at this point I want to tell 'em to SHOVE IT!   I've served the Army fro 18 yrs, have a TS/SCI clearance for work & the reserves and spent a total of 2 yrs in Iraq for Desert Storm then the GWOT and the FBI Is questioning me based on a poly??!!  I'm BLOWN AWAY!!  I don't even WANT their stupid job now!!
 Q:  How bad will it be for me and my TS/SCI is I tell them I won't submit to a restest?  THey left a bad taste in my mouth and I want no part of 'em.

[George W. Maschke]

To the best of my knowledge, the FBI typically does not offer a "re-test" unless the applicant requests it. If, however, the Bureau were to offe you a re-test without your requesting it, I doubt that your refusal would cause any more problems when your periodic review (PR) for your security clearance comes up than the initial "failure" would.  Moreover, the results of "retests" are almost always the same as the initial "test." Nonetheless, because your polygrapher's accusation of deception is part of your FBI HQ file (a permanent record) and will be seen by CCF when adjudicating your PR, it would be prudent to send the FBI a letter (by certified, return receipt mail) contesting their polygrapher's opinion.Your letter will also become part of your FBI HQ file.

If it is any consolation, you are not the only Army veteran with a TS clearance to be falsely accused of deception by an FBI polygrapher with regard to counterintelligence questions. See my and Chris Stein's statements on the "Personal Statements" page:

http://antipolygraph.org/statements.shtml

If you would be interested in adding a statement of your own, send an e-mail to info@antipolygraph.org.

[NoWayMan]

Thanks for the info George.  I wish I paid more attention to this site BEFORE my poly... but I'm so angry the way things went down with the FBI I wouldn't work there now anyway.  I just cannot calm down.  I have a MS in CJ with a minor is CompSci, held a TS forever, been in Army Intel almost 17 yrs and I've even recently won a bronze star from Iraq during Operation Enduring Freedom!!!!!  ... and someone that has known me for a few hours is going to question my honor, interity and fitness for duty based not on evidence or an investigation.. no based on a POLY!!  Makes me boil.  All I wanted to do is use my CJ and IT skills to serve my country.  There is no way I'll go back for a restest and suffer the humilation I suffered that day all over again.  They believe in the poly as a pre-employment tool and I got shafted b/c of it.  I wanted the IA job badly but sorry FBI but it's your loss.

[Sluggo]

Yep, join the 'false positives' club.

FBI personnel who pass polys will say they work.  Will anyone who has passed it agree it doesn't ?  Moreover, since the ones that pass go on to FBI careers, who's gonna dispute the FBI?

Kinda ironic; you have a long & distinguished background and hold a MS in CJ, yet the guy that poly'd you and ruined your FBI chances only needed a GED, 10wks of poly school, and a few hrs alone w/you to do it.  How's that for adding insult to injury?

Polys are CRAP.  George's poly-verbiage is more PC, but I like mine better...
    
Incase you haven't spent much time at this site, George has a petition here that can use some esignature-support.

[Fair Chance]

Dear NoWayMan,

The system is counting on you to give up and lick your wounds.  Please, at a minimum, write the agency and contest their findings.  I know you do not wish employment with them but request another polygraph examination.

Even if they fail to display fidelity, bravery, and integrity, show them that you have it.  The FBI has alot of old dogs in it and your appeal letter DOES MATTER.  You tie up resources and the amount of appeal letters are tallied up and presented in reports and studies.  If everyone appealed their findings, the numbers would be staggering.  Sooner or later, someone will notice.

Let them know that you will keep appealing up the chain of command.  Spend some time and a few dollars on registered mail and keep someone in Washington, D.C., aware that you are not going away quietly.

Regards.

[NoWayMan]

Dear NoWayMan,

The system is counting on you to give up and lick your wounds.  Please, at a minimum, write the agency and contest their findings.  I know you do not wish employment with them but request another polygraph examination.

Even if they fail to display fidelity, bravery, and integrity, show them that you have it.  The FBI has alot of old dogs in it and your appeal letter DOES MATTER.  You tie up resources and the amount of appeal letters are tallied up and presented in reports and studies.  If everyone appealed their findings, the numbers would be staggering.  Sooner or later, someone will notice.

Let them know that you will keep appealing up the chain of command.  Spend some time and a few dollars on registered mail and keep someone in Washington, D.C., aware that you are not going away quietly.

Regards.

Yea... I'm stubborn so I won't just give up & roll over.  I figure I have a few weeks before I get my rejection letter and I want to take some time and formalize a decent follow up letter to the FBI.  If I wrote it now my anger would seep through and I want them to know
1) We ALL know polys are crap... so why use 'em?
2) The only one lying in the poly office that day was the FBI poly examiner
3) They missed out on me and I was very qualified for the position but  more importantly they will continue to miss out on good, qualified people
4) I have pride and would never work for them now after the BS way I was treated.

If anyone has any sample letters to the FBI please post the link....  I appreciate it!

[Bulldog1966]

I had the same experience not too long ago.  I work in corrections and as such, have to have a clean background.

I took a FBI polygrapy for an Investigative Specialist position and got a letter stating that my polygraph did not fall within FBI parameters.  

The polygraph examiner asked me after the exam which questions that I thought I had problems with.  I was so nervous that I told her that I had no idea.

I did not lie at all!!  I am just as upset as you are in this regard.  

I called the applicant specialist and he had me send a letter about the polygraph, an appeal letter if you will.  I went into some detail about what occurred, and I have yet to get a reply/retest back.

I know how skewed polygraphs can be, how unreliable they can be.  And I know that I am no liar.

I will be fighting this for as long as it takes.

[G Scalabr]

NoWayMan,

I would suggest avoiding too many details in your letter of appeal. Once you get their rejection letter, send a short letter maintaining your innocence and requesting a re-test. A few sentences will be fine.

Although your points are all valid, an appeal letter is not the time or place for them. The FBI knows these "tests" are flawed.

If the appeal process bears no fruit (which it usually does not), you can look into other options, like joining the ongoing lawsuit being brought by others in your position.

For now, your best bet is to send a short, to the point letter (via certified mail) making the following two points
1) You did not lie
2) You want a re-test

This is not the time or place to attack the agency, the examiner, or the inherent unreliability of polygraphy itself. The key here is to have something in your file indicating that you did not walk away when confronted with these false allegations

[dimas]

I really am sorry to hear about your unfortunate ordeal with the Polygraph.  I, unfortunately, also fell into a similar predicament as you.  Every poly I have taken I have received an inconclusive on.  While I will still maintain that the POLY is a good tool at getting unfit candidates to admit to things that they have done that normally would not come up on a background check, I whole-heartedly believe that it should neve be used as the sole reason to disqualify an individual.  

Fortunately, getting the "inconclusive" result seemed to follow me for a while and branded me as an "unfit" candidate with other agencies I had applied with.  Amazingly people on oral boards seem to equate inconclusive with FAIL .  I did mention fortunately, and this is because in the end I ended up for the better.  Instead of having started a career with any of those agencies, I finally found a very good job with an employer that recognizes my talents and KNOWS the person that I am based on my work history and the word of my former employers, not the judgement of a man and his machine who have only known me for the better of 2 or 3 hours.  

Contest it, make sure it is on record and don't take it personal.  You, your family, friends, employers (past and present) know what kind of person you really are and in the end that is what matters the most.

Good luck

[nolehce]

To make a long story short, I am now a (former) FBI intel analyst candidate who was told to expect a disqualification letter following my polygraph test. Once I have received the letter I will post more details. Suffice it to say, however, that I got utterly fucked over in much the same manner as the other posters on this thread.

[hanazono]

yeah...many agencies dont care about the FBI's poly.  While it may go into your FBI record/file it will not go into your other security records (for example if you work for Secret Service and then applied to FBI and failed the poly the FBI is not going to send a copy of that DQ letter to SS).  When I applied to teh FBI I previoulsy had passed the SS poly but they had no idea about other peoples polys...the only way they will know is if I tell them.  

[George W. Maschke]

yeah...many agencies dont care about the FBI's poly.  While it may go into your FBI record/file it will not go into your other security records (for example if you work for Secret Service and then applied to FBI and failed the poly the FBI is not going to send a copy of that DQ letter to SS).  When I applied to teh FBI I previoulsy had passed the SS poly but they had no idea about other peoples polys...the only way they will know is if I tell them.  

While the FBI may not take the initiative in forwarding your file to other agencies, when you apply for a security clearance (or periodic review, if you already have a clearance) with another agency, that agency will conduct, among other things, a National Agency Check. That check will reveal that you have an FBI HQ file, and that file will be requested. At this point, the failed polygraph may become an issue.

[hanazono]

I would think it would become only an issue if the specifics were given such as asmissions to drug use, etc....and if the agency you were applying for required a poly.  I doubt that after 5 years and there is some letter saying you took a poly and were not in parameters would matter.  I took a poly with the SS and nobody wanted to see that file or my medical records with SS.  So I guess if a guy applies to the FBI and fails the panel or written test then that will be requested too??? If any BI investigator came back to me and said whats with this FBI letter I would say "you tell me because I have no idea what "not within parameters mean".  Well, doesnt matter to me...as long as I sent my letter not agreeing with the poly letter is good enough for me.   I already have a clearance so I guess I will have to wait 5 years and find out...hmmm

[George W. Maschke]

The Army adjudicator who made the decision to revoke my security clearance thought that my having failed an FBI pre-employment polygraph five years earlier was significant, speculating (in writing) that I might be a spy or drug trafficker. For details, see "Too Hot of a Potato: A Citizen Soldier's Encounter With the Polygraph."

[hanazono]

I agree that if there was some "report" in writing saying a guy was  drug trafficker etc.  But these standard letters do not give any specifics so........