hey

[George W. Maschke]

Guest,

Your contribution to this discussion is welcome. You might consider registering on the message board so that your posts will not be confused with those of others. (Registration will also enable you to edit your posts and to exchange private messages with other registered users.)

I would very much like to believe that an examinee's admission to knowing about "the lie behind the lie detector" would never be used against an applicant for employment, but the feedback we have received from those who have adopted the "complete honesty" approach is not encouraging. Neither is the polygraph community's failure to articulate how polygraphers should handle informed sources.

The NSA's polygraph regulation and associated documentation, which we obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, makes no mention of how NSA polygraphers are to handle informed subjects. If you are in a position to know, perhaps you could tell us how NSA polygaphers handle those subjects who admit to knowing that polygraphy is a pseudoscientific sham?

[Guest]

I am not in the know regarding their procedures.  My status as an examiner is "inactive".  Thanks for the invite.  I will consider a more perminant registration.

You can only suspect someone is using countermeasures; you have no definitive method of determining it otherwise, short of a confession from the examinee.

Beleive what you want Mr. Truth.  Since I know everyone will ask, I will answer now.  I am not inclined to discuss how.  What would be the benefit to polygraph by providing such information to the nice folks here?

[s-X-e]

I am not inclined to discuss how.  What would be the benefit to polygraph by providing such information to the nice folks here?

Credibility?  

[Guest]

Credibility?  

Plenty.  Do you need any?

[George W. Maschke]

Guest,

The National Academy of Sciences did not find the polygraph community's claimed ability to detect countermeasures to be credible. Why should we?

[Guest]

I would not try and convince anyone here, especially you, that everyone in polygraph can detect CMs.  Obviously some of the folks here have claimed to use them successfully, any proof of that?

[s-X-e]

I would not try and convince anyone here, especially you, that everyone in polygraph can detect CMs.  Obviously some of the folks here have claimed to use them successfully, any proof of that?

It would appear Antipolygraph.org is more than willing to back up its faith in countermeasures. I understand you're new to this site so you might not have noticed it yet, but Dr. Richardson has setup a challenge (on the main page) to the polygraph community that hopes to prove that countermeasures are not detectable. Furthermore, I believe it's fair to say that the burden of proof now rests on the polygraph community to present evidence that countermeasures are detectable, and not ap.org to prove that they aren't, since this site has provided research to support its claim (i.e. studies by Dr Honts) and is willing to demonstrate the veracity of that claim through Dr. Richardson's challenge.

Members of the polygraph community, on the other hand, have provided absolutely no evidence to support their claims other than "just take our word for it."

[anonymous]

If you make any damming admissions,  be aware that
they will be sent to DIS for your final Top Secret
determination, but of course, they won't tell you that.
They may tell you that they are your friend, unified
against the agency, or they will play the SOB role.  The
agency must attract people with secretive backgrounds,
so this unhealthy cycle is just perpetuated, and is what
those applicants are used to.  This is the unhealthy
cycle of typical abusers (e.g., spousal/child abusers).
At least for the DSS/DoD clearances, there are a number
of steps, plus appeals, that the clearance determination
can go through, but for the SI part, there is never any
explanation, just dead silence.  For the DSS/DoD
clearances, the investigators never hound, or lie,
to you, and it is ALWAYS best to be honest with them
(if not, they will get you on personal conduct).  For the
SI clearance, you have someone who is deceptive and
hostile, so it makes you wonder about working for a
place like that...

[Anonymous :)]

I'm sure everything will work out.  I will be sure to let you know how I do on the test.  If they know I posted here well good for them.  I'm a reliable American and only took this job to help my Country.  If things don't go well I will just find a different job which doesn't have as much benefit for my Country.

Thanks for the information, you did scare me a bit about the polygraph but now I just don't care.  I am just going to go in and give them the answers to the questions they ask.  If they ask me how much I know about polygraphs I will let them know i've been to a few websites about polygraph tests but never really got in to reading in detail about them.  If they ask which websites I will tell them i've been to all the websites which came up on google.com.  If they have a problem with me searching the web then the job wasn't right for me in the first place.  Also if the person thats going to do me reads this well i'd like to say hey, ill see you soon..

I have stopped reading information about polygraphs except for this thread and some of the for-polygraph websites.  

[orolan]

Anonymous

Also if the person thats going to do me reads this well i'd like to say hey, ill see you soon..

Of course if the examiner reads your posts here and informs you that visiting this site is a sign of "questionable" moral character, you can always ask him "Well, what were YOU doing there???

[Mr. Truth]

Reminds of that cartoon where people are exiting an x-rated movie, and a man is embarrassed to be seen by someone he knows, so he says:

"I don't watch these things myself; I'm looking at who else is here watching this stuff."

[Human Subject]

Am I the only person who smells something fishy about this whole thread?

Let me put it this way -- I'll be shocked if "Anonymous " DOESN'T report passing his exam with flying colors, and will reiterate his faith that people with nothing to hide have nothing to fear from the polygraph.

[Human Subject]

Look I just don't want to cheat on this test.  Does it make me a better man to cheat on this polygraph?  If I got caught, wouldn't I fail?  The reason I post is not to start a debate on polygraph tests but to see what feedback I can get from you guys.  I want to hear more of Guests point of view.  Do you think I should let go and let God or cheat the machine as im telling the truth with the way I breath (and let God help me a bit too .

This quote is especially odd.

[Elmo]

I talked to a friend of a friend and he said no one that fits this description of anonymous is even taking a test.  Hes prolly just a examiner which is trying to get the people who visit this post to think twice about antipolygraph.org. This is just what I heard and might not be 100% accurate but im just giving you a heads up.. I'd ban his ip or something

[jonnlaw]

He has something to hide, else he would not be here.  After all they call it a "lie " detector, not truth detector.

In any case, if he passes, he's using some knowledge gained here.

Jonnlaw