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Posted by orolan
- Jun 09, 2003, 09:20 PMFutureFed,
Considering that the FBI overlooks drug and alcohol abuse from your past if enough time has elapsed, I can't see them disqualifying you for a college prank. We have all done some stupid things in our lives. After all, George Dubya has a DUI conviction and he's the President.
I think your candor about the incident will far outweigh any possible negatives from it.
Considering that the FBI overlooks drug and alcohol abuse from your past if enough time has elapsed, I can't see them disqualifying you for a college prank. We have all done some stupid things in our lives. After all, George Dubya has a DUI conviction and he's the President.
I think your candor about the incident will far outweigh any possible negatives from it.
Posted by FutureFed?
- Jun 09, 2003, 07:25 PMQuote from: orolan on Jun 09, 2003, 05:35 PMFutureFed,
You have no guarantees that this incident will not surface in a background check. If you acknowledge the job you were fired from, they may call to confirm the reason for your termination. If you leave the job off the list, they may discover it in a cross-reference to your Social Security records, which would probably throw up a red flag they would want to investigate.
Your choice, but I vote for you telling them about the entire thing now.
That's the way I'm leaning right now. It was a stupid mistake and I'd hate to make another one by leaving it off and not admitting to it. Do you think it is grounds for disqualification?
Posted by orolan
- Jun 09, 2003, 05:35 PMFutureFed,
You have no guarantees that this incident will not surface in a background check. If you acknowledge the job you were fired from, they may call to confirm the reason for your termination. If you leave the job off the list, they may discover it in a cross-reference to your Social Security records, which would probably throw up a red flag they would want to investigate.
Your choice, but I vote for you telling them about the entire thing now.
You have no guarantees that this incident will not surface in a background check. If you acknowledge the job you were fired from, they may call to confirm the reason for your termination. If you leave the job off the list, they may discover it in a cross-reference to your Social Security records, which would probably throw up a red flag they would want to investigate.
Your choice, but I vote for you telling them about the entire thing now.
Posted by FutureFed?
- Jun 09, 2003, 05:22 PMWell, it looks like I'll have to investigate and see if anyone else who might know this is still around. What kind of paperwork would the postal inspector have kept?
Also, if you fail the background test, does the fbi let you know what specifically failed you? or do they just say "you failed"? Thanks again.
Also, if you fail the background test, does the fbi let you know what specifically failed you? or do they just say "you failed"? Thanks again.
Posted by Fair Chance
- Jun 09, 2003, 04:49 PMLet me be more pragmatic. I have been investigated by the FBI and they have spent alot of time and money searching records that I forgot existed in my lifetime. None of them were deliberate omissions and nothing anywhere as serious as Future Fed's problem. They were still giving me the "evil eye" until the situations were resolved.
I will venture to say that Future Fed's problem is not as much a threat to his future employment as lying about it or omitting it. The FBI has the right to TERMINATE employment anytime in the future for knowingly falsifying application materials. This issue could be a hidden time bomb to be innocently ignited by some loud mouth in the future during a "ten year college reunion". May be this postal inspector has a bone up his "a__" and finds out later that you work for the FBI and his relative did not get hired and wants to "leak" information for revenge.
I was never punished for my honesty in my law enforcement applications. I had memos to write and had to wait extra time.
The pre-screening polygraph is flawed in itself and I consider it an issue on its own merit.
Please reconsider all "omissions" carefully during applications. I have seen many officers walked out the door concerning things that happened years ago and were not disclosed.
Regards.
I will venture to say that Future Fed's problem is not as much a threat to his future employment as lying about it or omitting it. The FBI has the right to TERMINATE employment anytime in the future for knowingly falsifying application materials. This issue could be a hidden time bomb to be innocently ignited by some loud mouth in the future during a "ten year college reunion". May be this postal inspector has a bone up his "a__" and finds out later that you work for the FBI and his relative did not get hired and wants to "leak" information for revenge.
I was never punished for my honesty in my law enforcement applications. I had memos to write and had to wait extra time.
The pre-screening polygraph is flawed in itself and I consider it an issue on its own merit.
Please reconsider all "omissions" carefully during applications. I have seen many officers walked out the door concerning things that happened years ago and were not disclosed.
Regards.
Posted by Anonymous
- Jun 09, 2003, 04:27 PMFair Chance,
It was not my intention to insult your intelligence. I admire your sense of honor. Unfortunately, bureaucracies have no such scruples.
Volunteering derogatory information that cannot be otherwise obtained can only hurt an applicants chances. Ironically, the hiring process tends to weed out the honest. Those who tell all are most likely to get DQed.
I don't doubt that your intentions are noble, but if you are suggesting to FutureFed? that he should volunteer information about the matter he has described here, I think you're advice is unsound.
It was not my intention to insult your intelligence. I admire your sense of honor. Unfortunately, bureaucracies have no such scruples.
Volunteering derogatory information that cannot be otherwise obtained can only hurt an applicants chances. Ironically, the hiring process tends to weed out the honest. Those who tell all are most likely to get DQed.
I don't doubt that your intentions are noble, but if you are suggesting to FutureFed? that he should volunteer information about the matter he has described here, I think you're advice is unsound.
Posted by Fair Chance
- Jun 09, 2003, 04:13 PMQuote from: Anonymous on Jun 09, 2003, 04:06 PMDear Anonymous,
Volunteering derogatory information that would not otherwise be obtainable is just plain stupid.
I am not stupid but I have voluntarily provided derogatory information during all of my applications. When I go on the witness stand, I say the truth, no matter how it will affect my career. Honesty is not something that you turn on and off at will. I respect myself for being honest, even when being punished for it. I never have to look over my shoulder and wonder if anything in the past is going to catch up with me for I have dealt with all of them on the way.
Yes, if being honest is stupid, I will be honest.
Regards.
Posted by Anonymous
- Jun 09, 2003, 04:06 PMFair Chance,
In an ideal world, honesty would be rewarded. In law enforcement hiring, honesty is punished.
Volunteering derogatory information that would not otherwise be obtainable is just plain stupid.
In an ideal world, honesty would be rewarded. In law enforcement hiring, honesty is punished.
Volunteering derogatory information that would not otherwise be obtainable is just plain stupid.
Posted by Fair Chance
- Jun 09, 2003, 03:58 PMDear Future Fed,
The FD-140 form is very specific on asking about termination of employment on less than amiable terms. This form will serve as a basis for the rest of your security forms in the government should you be hired.
The FBI is very concerned about "omissions" which occur specifically because an applicant is trying to protect their career or advancement potential. It is far better to tell the truth, have to fill out many memos, and have your application delayed now for a few months than trying to keep straight "all the omissions".
Trust is not something that is convenient. I am trusting that any law enforcement officer's word is gold. Those who would "omit the truth" because it could hurt their career chances have to sit down and think about their priorities.
The system is not perfect and I know of many instances where law enforcement officers did not show this integrity. I respect those who do "live their lives under the microscope".
A tough decision which is yours alone.
Regards.
The FD-140 form is very specific on asking about termination of employment on less than amiable terms. This form will serve as a basis for the rest of your security forms in the government should you be hired.
The FBI is very concerned about "omissions" which occur specifically because an applicant is trying to protect their career or advancement potential. It is far better to tell the truth, have to fill out many memos, and have your application delayed now for a few months than trying to keep straight "all the omissions".
Trust is not something that is convenient. I am trusting that any law enforcement officer's word is gold. Those who would "omit the truth" because it could hurt their career chances have to sit down and think about their priorities.
The system is not perfect and I know of many instances where law enforcement officers did not show this integrity. I respect those who do "live their lives under the microscope".
A tough decision which is yours alone.
Regards.
Posted by Skeptic
- Jun 09, 2003, 03:47 PMQuote from: Anonymous on Jun 09, 2003, 03:34 PMIf there is no way that information about this incident would turn up in a background investigation, then it would be foolish for you to mention it. The incident can only hurt your chances of being hired.
Once you mention it to the FBI, it becomes a matter of record -- part of your FBI file -- and it will follow you for the rest of your life.
Same goes for your being fired. If there's no way this could be discovered in a background investigation, then it's in your best interest not to mention it. You can say you left for personal reasons.
FutureFed,
You might want to go with Anonymous' suggestion, as I'm running on entirely too little sleep to be giving advice right now
Skeptic
Posted by Anonymous
- Jun 09, 2003, 03:34 PMIf there is no way that information about this incident would turn up in a background investigation, then it would be foolish for you to mention it. The incident can only hurt your chances of being hired.
Once you mention it to the FBI, it becomes a matter of record -- part of your FBI file -- and it will follow you for the rest of your life.
Same goes for your being fired. If there's no way this could be discovered in a background investigation, then it's in your best interest not to mention it. You can say you left for personal reasons.
Once you mention it to the FBI, it becomes a matter of record -- part of your FBI file -- and it will follow you for the rest of your life.
Same goes for your being fired. If there's no way this could be discovered in a background investigation, then it's in your best interest not to mention it. You can say you left for personal reasons.
Posted by Skeptic
- Jun 09, 2003, 02:54 PMQuote from: FutureFed? on Jun 09, 2003, 02:38 PMI have a question on filling out the FD-140 form for an FBI special agent position. When I was 20 I worked at a convenience store on campus while at college. I foolishly played a practical joke on a roommate by filling out a "change of address" form and mailing a bunk money order to get some magazines sent to him. I did not realize at the time that I was committing mail fraud.
Anyway, I was not charged or arrested or anything like that but I was questioned by a postal inspector and I admitted to everything. I was then fired from the job. My supervisor really liked me and did not want to fire me but she said she had no choice due to the mail offense.
My question is, do I tell the FBI about this? I was never formally charged on anything like that and the supervisor no longer works there (the store has been closed). Any advice would be helpful as this is the only blemish on an otherwise perfect record. Thanks.
They may ask whether you've ever been fired from a job, at which time you'll need to speak up about the incident.
Although you didn't mention how long ago the incident occurred, I would think that it would not be treated as a big deal if you told them about it, especially if you were never charged. To me, it looks like a youthful indescretion, intended as a prank (with little harm done), and it sounds like you learned your lesson. I can't imagine it would substantially impugn their impression of your judgement, unless accompanied by a bunch of other stuff (though they may give you stern looks when asking for more details). Remember, absolutely no one is perfect.
The other issue might be whether someone else might say something about it in a background check. If so, it might be better to mention it.
The decision is up to you, of course. Again, I don't see this as a big deal, but I'm not a background investigator. If you do mention it, I think the key would be to bring it up well before the polygraph, if you have to "experience" one (I assume you will).
Skeptic
Posted by FutureFed?
- Jun 09, 2003, 02:38 PMI have a question on filling out the FD-140 form for an FBI special agent position. When I was 20 I worked at a convenience store on campus while at college. I foolishly played a practical joke on a roommate by filling out a "change of address" form and mailing a bunk money order to get some magazines sent to him. I did not realize at the time that I was committing mail fraud.
Anyway, I was not charged or arrested or anything like that but I was questioned by a postal inspector and I admitted to everything. I was then fired from the job. My supervisor really liked me and did not want to fire me but she said she had no choice due to the mail offense.
My question is, do I tell the FBI about this? I was never formally charged on anything like that and the supervisor no longer works there (the store has been closed). Any advice would be helpful as this is the only blemish on an otherwise perfect record. Thanks.
Anyway, I was not charged or arrested or anything like that but I was questioned by a postal inspector and I admitted to everything. I was then fired from the job. My supervisor really liked me and did not want to fire me but she said she had no choice due to the mail offense.
My question is, do I tell the FBI about this? I was never formally charged on anything like that and the supervisor no longer works there (the store has been closed). Any advice would be helpful as this is the only blemish on an otherwise perfect record. Thanks.