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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Feb 06, 2003, 05:23 AMQuoteThey had me sign a paper with all the questions I was to be asked. They were clearly marked under sections as to what types of questions they were.
That the questions about your name and whether you intended to answer truthfully were described as "control" questions in the paper you signed does not necessarily entail that these questions were actually used as "control" questions. The question set you described in your first post is consistent with the relevant/irrelevant technique.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Feb 06, 2003, 05:16 AMQuoteWhy would a polygraph who goes through all the trouble of reading these forums, not do the simple thing of asking people to remove their shoes?
Because it is socially awkward and to routinely do so would promote the notion that the polygraph can be beaten.
Posted by PollyWannaCracker
- Feb 06, 2003, 05:10 AMThey had me sign a paper with all the questions I was to be asked. They were clearly marked under sections as to what types of questions they were.
Why would a polygraph who goes through all the trouble of reading these forums, not do the simple thing of asking people to remove their shoes?
Why would a polygraph who goes through all the trouble of reading these forums, not do the simple thing of asking people to remove their shoes?
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Feb 06, 2003, 04:56 AMYour assumption that any polygrapher who monitors these boards will necessarily check subjects' shoes for tacks is ill-founded. This is not a routine practice, and is likely to be done only if the polygrapher suspects countermeasures.
Who/what clearly showed them? How?
QuoteAlso about the relevant/ irrelevant thing, it did have 2 control questions. They even clearly showed them.
Who/what clearly showed them? How?
Posted by PollyWannaCracker
- Feb 06, 2003, 04:42 AMGeorge,
If they read this forum then they would have actually done something to prevent the tac in shoe. They left it completely open. After reading your book I looked through those websites with all the anarchy files and the only countermeasure they had was tac in shoe. That's why I did not worry.
Also about the relevant/ irrelevant thing, it did have 2 control questions. They even clearly showed them.
If they read this forum then they would have actually done something to prevent the tac in shoe. They left it completely open. After reading your book I looked through those websites with all the anarchy files and the only countermeasure they had was tac in shoe. That's why I did not worry.
Also about the relevant/ irrelevant thing, it did have 2 control questions. They even clearly showed them.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Feb 06, 2003, 04:29 AMPollyWannaCracker,
Thank you for posting about your experience. You didn't actually ask any questions in your post. But I'd be happy to share a few observations.
First, it was not wise to post the precise date of your polygraph examination. Some polygraphers monitor these boards, and if yours was among them, the date of your examination plus the description of yourself and of the location that you gave, might have been enough for her to identify you. But I don't think you need to be overly worried about this possibility. The percentage of practicing polygraphers who monitor this site on a daily basis must be low.
Second, I don't think that constricting one's lower abdomen is risky as a physical countermeasure, as it is not clear what effects this may have on the pneumo channels, especially the lower one.
Third, with regard to the question as to whether you intended to be completely truthful: this is generally used as a "sacrifice" relevant question. It's possible (perhaps likely) that your polygrapher used a relevant/irrelevant technique rather than a probable-lie "control" question "test."
Thank you for posting about your experience. You didn't actually ask any questions in your post. But I'd be happy to share a few observations.
First, it was not wise to post the precise date of your polygraph examination. Some polygraphers monitor these boards, and if yours was among them, the date of your examination plus the description of yourself and of the location that you gave, might have been enough for her to identify you. But I don't think you need to be overly worried about this possibility. The percentage of practicing polygraphers who monitor this site on a daily basis must be low.
Second, I don't think that constricting one's lower abdomen is risky as a physical countermeasure, as it is not clear what effects this may have on the pneumo channels, especially the lower one.
Third, with regard to the question as to whether you intended to be completely truthful: this is generally used as a "sacrifice" relevant question. It's possible (perhaps likely) that your polygrapher used a relevant/irrelevant technique rather than a probable-lie "control" question "test."
Posted by PollyWannaCracker
- Feb 05, 2003, 02:11 AMQuote from: Seeker on Feb 04, 2003, 07:45 AM
Do let us know the results.
Regards,
Damn still only one reply and just a question. Not even George M is replying to this.
Well... I went in today. I kept worrying about my polygrapher gasping at when I made the polygraph go crazy for the control Q of if I am lying to her. But I contined training today and will go back again to continue more.
I asked another employee if he got his polygraph results and he did not. He said he assumed he passed or he would not be there. And I do not dare ask my results or it looks like I am lying. He said there is a federal form to fill out to get my results, but I am not sure about it.
Posted by Seeker
- Feb 04, 2003, 07:45 AMDo let us know the results.
Regards,
Regards,
Posted by PollyWannaCracker
- Feb 04, 2003, 02:24 AMMy first polygraph experience (happened Monday 2/3/03).
This may be long, but I want everyone to read it all and reply to it all.
One of the biggest highlight was for the control question "do you intend to be fully truthful", on the second run, I tightened my lower abdomen so much that she made a short gasp as the needles appearantly went really high (I think she then tried to quiet herself). But she said nothing of it ever afterward. I did make it go a lot higher than the first control question if my first name was real.
The job was security guard with a private company.
I arrived at the polygraph company 30 minutes early. I nearly was 40 minutes early. I was kind of eager to get it over with plus I and yahoo driving directions overestimated travel time greatly. I dress business casual. No tie or suit as that might constrict movement. During the test she had my roll up my undershirt so the blood pressure thing would work. I decided business casual as the clothes are loser than my casual clothes so it would disguise muscle movement better. The person before me wore t-shirt and jeans. He looked a little ghetto. The person after me looked well-mannered, but wore t-shirt and jean shorts. He asked me how long it was and I said it was short, which it was (30 minutes for 20-30 questions repeated twice).
I practiced over the weekend and for a long time I thought I was no good and could not pull this off. During the test I still had trouble with breathing. I counted to 2 for inhaling then again exhaling, but it only helped stabilize it a little bit. In practice forcing it makes me dizzy. It was easier to mentally calm myself.
The building was quite small. The lady I met with had a ton of papers to sign including work history, and the paper made sure I did not have any heart problems that could interfere with the test. There was a mirror in the waiting room along with tons of non-porn magazines with half-naked beautiful women on the front. There were also 3 pennies on the floor. The mirror even was on the wall by the waiting room. I thought the mirror was a spy device, but on the paper she had me sign it said my session was not videotaped, and I tried to look back at the mirror and there was some small plastic on the other side of the wall that was sealed. I could not tell what it was so I was unsure if it was to spy. I tried my best not to fidget in the waiting room or in the pre-test. The papers also said I did not have to take the polygraph for employment and could not be disqualified for it (did not seem that way to me) and I looked the company up on the web and it said that their employees must pass a polygraph. Well the paper said I could not be denied employment based on the results of my polygraph test alone. Odd as I'm certain if I fail or if I refuse I will be denied employment.
During the stim test: The chair had towels on the arms, but it appeared to be a regular chair. The floor had nothing for pressure. It was just one of those plastic flat surfaces for rolling chairs so they don't ruin a rug. I could have used a tac in the shoe and not been noticed. But physical pain does not produce much effect for me.
And mental countermeasures were not working well. So I did the sphincter one. After days of practice I had a lot of trouble. It was difficult to do this quickly and easily. Plus it kept making me have to poop. So before the test I made sure to eat a small breakfast and completely empty out my bowels of urine (my test was short, but I expected it to be long).
Halfway into practice I decided to change tactic to tightening stomach muscles. One person on here said they tightened their chest but my pects are flappy and I cannot flex them at will. My stomach muscles are also not so in shape, but this makes them quite useful as a countermeasure. On the last day after getting good enough that my cheeks didn't do a funny expression on stomach tightening, I got worried about how they measured the breathing. Sure enough I saw that they put a tube around the stomach, so I practiced lower stomach. During the test there was a tube across my chest and one on my stomach. The polygrapher said not to move as it would mess up the results. During practice I kept yawning and it said yawning makes you look like a liar, but I could not help it. During the test the most was maybe a slight half impulse for a deep breath, but no yawns.
Only 2 control questions. I first peeked at them when singing necessary paperwork (not signed confessions) slyly by having the paper open to both sides. They were the same questions the company went over. 2 irrelvant Qs about where I lived. 2 control. (1) If my first name was what I said it was. (2) If I intended to be fully truthful about the questions.
Remember how George says the 1st question automatically makes you nervous? The first two questions were control. She even said irrelvant, control, relevant. Hehe, so funny.
I have never done illegal drugs nor sold them. Nor done any bad crimes, but some questions I was worried about
Please note two of them are listed in George H's manual as control. On my test they were clearly marked relevant. I suspect many tests they are also relevant. They were 3 and 4.
1) withheld any information on employment (note: I have learned the hard way that in this economy, honesty = no job. People cannot handle the truth anyway. I subtly made myself sound better.)
2) Ever been discharged [fired] from a job (note: I mentioned the telemarketing jobs I was fired from, but one job at a convienience store the manager who hired me, left for another company a week after I joined, and the assistant manager was a lady who admittedly did not want to be management, was unintelligent, always fouling up, and then one day I was fired and they refused to give reason or suggestions for improvement. Probably an illegal firing, but I did not give that out because I might not be able to work. And getting a job is impossible.)
3) Ever stolen from an employer? She went to money, merchandise, and then anything. These three I have trouble. (I have stolen pens, sticky notes, and batteries from companies that were abusing me.)
4) Ever committed an undetected crime? (I've never shoplifted, but I've warezed, hacked, sped, turned w/o signalling (my blinker broke and my window is broken) and theater hopped.)
Not like the other testamonials about smoking dope, but still in this economy the slightest thing will disqualify me.
When I walked in the door I was visibly nervous. No shaking, but had difficulty faking facial expression. Then when talking to her was again. During the pretest I looked right at her and I was more nervous than during the actual test when lying because during the test I looked right at plain wall.
She did a very brief intro about the polygraph. Just that it measures physiological resposes. She did not preach about the polygraph being accurate. She did not do any fear-instilling intros like from the book. She was polite. She did not attempt to interrogate. Only in the pretest did she insist I come clean about everything to make the test show I was telling the truth. She said the test does not know if I did a crime as a child or recently so to confess those. I confessed nothing.
She did not have me remove my shoes during the test. She did not randomly accuse me of doing countermeasures. She did not do any surprise questions at the end. Interestingly, the questions she did ask, I had to review and sign first.
I also tried to say yes and no firmly (although sometimes had trouble doing it but I think it came out right.)
During the test when I lied my stress increased, but also it did it a few times randomly for questions I was honest about and somehow I just got nervous.
When I first sat at the chair I think I was tense as she told me to relax and tried to get me to position myself into the equipment better.
At the end, I asked if she would fax them to the company and she said she mails them in and then calls them with results. No post-test interview, but no "you passed" either. I did not ask as that was supposed to make me look bad. I just shook hands, was a bit puzzled leaving expecting something else (like getting some paper--mentioned this) and then left.
I will see if I pass to report if your stuff works.
I don't know if I passed or not??? I will find out tommorow when I call the company. -- still nervous --
This may be long, but I want everyone to read it all and reply to it all.
One of the biggest highlight was for the control question "do you intend to be fully truthful", on the second run, I tightened my lower abdomen so much that she made a short gasp as the needles appearantly went really high (I think she then tried to quiet herself). But she said nothing of it ever afterward. I did make it go a lot higher than the first control question if my first name was real.
The job was security guard with a private company.
I arrived at the polygraph company 30 minutes early. I nearly was 40 minutes early. I was kind of eager to get it over with plus I and yahoo driving directions overestimated travel time greatly. I dress business casual. No tie or suit as that might constrict movement. During the test she had my roll up my undershirt so the blood pressure thing would work. I decided business casual as the clothes are loser than my casual clothes so it would disguise muscle movement better. The person before me wore t-shirt and jeans. He looked a little ghetto. The person after me looked well-mannered, but wore t-shirt and jean shorts. He asked me how long it was and I said it was short, which it was (30 minutes for 20-30 questions repeated twice).
I practiced over the weekend and for a long time I thought I was no good and could not pull this off. During the test I still had trouble with breathing. I counted to 2 for inhaling then again exhaling, but it only helped stabilize it a little bit. In practice forcing it makes me dizzy. It was easier to mentally calm myself.
The building was quite small. The lady I met with had a ton of papers to sign including work history, and the paper made sure I did not have any heart problems that could interfere with the test. There was a mirror in the waiting room along with tons of non-porn magazines with half-naked beautiful women on the front. There were also 3 pennies on the floor. The mirror even was on the wall by the waiting room. I thought the mirror was a spy device, but on the paper she had me sign it said my session was not videotaped, and I tried to look back at the mirror and there was some small plastic on the other side of the wall that was sealed. I could not tell what it was so I was unsure if it was to spy. I tried my best not to fidget in the waiting room or in the pre-test. The papers also said I did not have to take the polygraph for employment and could not be disqualified for it (did not seem that way to me) and I looked the company up on the web and it said that their employees must pass a polygraph. Well the paper said I could not be denied employment based on the results of my polygraph test alone. Odd as I'm certain if I fail or if I refuse I will be denied employment.
During the stim test: The chair had towels on the arms, but it appeared to be a regular chair. The floor had nothing for pressure. It was just one of those plastic flat surfaces for rolling chairs so they don't ruin a rug. I could have used a tac in the shoe and not been noticed. But physical pain does not produce much effect for me.
And mental countermeasures were not working well. So I did the sphincter one. After days of practice I had a lot of trouble. It was difficult to do this quickly and easily. Plus it kept making me have to poop. So before the test I made sure to eat a small breakfast and completely empty out my bowels of urine (my test was short, but I expected it to be long).
Halfway into practice I decided to change tactic to tightening stomach muscles. One person on here said they tightened their chest but my pects are flappy and I cannot flex them at will. My stomach muscles are also not so in shape, but this makes them quite useful as a countermeasure. On the last day after getting good enough that my cheeks didn't do a funny expression on stomach tightening, I got worried about how they measured the breathing. Sure enough I saw that they put a tube around the stomach, so I practiced lower stomach. During the test there was a tube across my chest and one on my stomach. The polygrapher said not to move as it would mess up the results. During practice I kept yawning and it said yawning makes you look like a liar, but I could not help it. During the test the most was maybe a slight half impulse for a deep breath, but no yawns.
Only 2 control questions. I first peeked at them when singing necessary paperwork (not signed confessions) slyly by having the paper open to both sides. They were the same questions the company went over. 2 irrelvant Qs about where I lived. 2 control. (1) If my first name was what I said it was. (2) If I intended to be fully truthful about the questions.
Remember how George says the 1st question automatically makes you nervous? The first two questions were control. She even said irrelvant, control, relevant. Hehe, so funny.
I have never done illegal drugs nor sold them. Nor done any bad crimes, but some questions I was worried about
Please note two of them are listed in George H's manual as control. On my test they were clearly marked relevant. I suspect many tests they are also relevant. They were 3 and 4.
1) withheld any information on employment (note: I have learned the hard way that in this economy, honesty = no job. People cannot handle the truth anyway. I subtly made myself sound better.)
2) Ever been discharged [fired] from a job (note: I mentioned the telemarketing jobs I was fired from, but one job at a convienience store the manager who hired me, left for another company a week after I joined, and the assistant manager was a lady who admittedly did not want to be management, was unintelligent, always fouling up, and then one day I was fired and they refused to give reason or suggestions for improvement. Probably an illegal firing, but I did not give that out because I might not be able to work. And getting a job is impossible.)
3) Ever stolen from an employer? She went to money, merchandise, and then anything. These three I have trouble. (I have stolen pens, sticky notes, and batteries from companies that were abusing me.)
4) Ever committed an undetected crime? (I've never shoplifted, but I've warezed, hacked, sped, turned w/o signalling (my blinker broke and my window is broken) and theater hopped.)
Not like the other testamonials about smoking dope, but still in this economy the slightest thing will disqualify me.
When I walked in the door I was visibly nervous. No shaking, but had difficulty faking facial expression. Then when talking to her was again. During the pretest I looked right at her and I was more nervous than during the actual test when lying because during the test I looked right at plain wall.
She did a very brief intro about the polygraph. Just that it measures physiological resposes. She did not preach about the polygraph being accurate. She did not do any fear-instilling intros like from the book. She was polite. She did not attempt to interrogate. Only in the pretest did she insist I come clean about everything to make the test show I was telling the truth. She said the test does not know if I did a crime as a child or recently so to confess those. I confessed nothing.
She did not have me remove my shoes during the test. She did not randomly accuse me of doing countermeasures. She did not do any surprise questions at the end. Interestingly, the questions she did ask, I had to review and sign first.
I also tried to say yes and no firmly (although sometimes had trouble doing it but I think it came out right.)
During the test when I lied my stress increased, but also it did it a few times randomly for questions I was honest about and somehow I just got nervous.
When I first sat at the chair I think I was tense as she told me to relax and tried to get me to position myself into the equipment better.
At the end, I asked if she would fax them to the company and she said she mails them in and then calls them with results. No post-test interview, but no "you passed" either. I did not ask as that was supposed to make me look bad. I just shook hands, was a bit puzzled leaving expecting something else (like getting some paper--mentioned this) and then left.
I will see if I pass to report if your stuff works.
I don't know if I passed or not??? I will find out tommorow when I call the company. -- still nervous --