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Posted by Marty
- Jan 23, 2003, 03:02 AMx X x,
Well, whatever happened to his MIG (I don't recall reading the original story) I was a bit skeptical until I saw a story in a major SD newspaper about his going public and the efforts to retrieve his family. He was at that time founder of a small (<20 people) company that made floppy disk controller cards (Zobex) for the original IBMPC and S100 boards. I was helping him to get the PLL working.
As for "black" projects, I never got involved in those. For that matter, I more naturally gravitated to smaller companies. Much more fun than the really big ones. Also one's skill set remains more widely marketable. I did get a tour in a portion of E-systems once - where you go through a turnstile and they bring you through a room with sirens blasting and a flashing light - so someone doesn't accidentally expose something classified I suppose, lol.
-Marty
Quote from: x_X_x on Jan 23, 2003, 01:30 AM
The black world, is indeed a very small world. I personally appreciate your story.
Well, whatever happened to his MIG (I don't recall reading the original story) I was a bit skeptical until I saw a story in a major SD newspaper about his going public and the efforts to retrieve his family. He was at that time founder of a small (<20 people) company that made floppy disk controller cards (Zobex) for the original IBMPC and S100 boards. I was helping him to get the PLL working.
As for "black" projects, I never got involved in those. For that matter, I more naturally gravitated to smaller companies. Much more fun than the really big ones. Also one's skill set remains more widely marketable. I did get a tour in a portion of E-systems once - where you go through a turnstile and they bring you through a room with sirens blasting and a flashing light - so someone doesn't accidentally expose something classified I suppose, lol.
-Marty
Posted by triple x
- Jan 23, 2003, 01:30 AMHi Marty,
Likewise, I find your post very interesting indeed. Several years ago, I was assigned to a MIG program better known as the "Red Hats" at "TTR" Tonopah Test Range, located at the Northern most reaches of Groom Lake, NV. I remember some talk of a very similar story you made reference too.
Actually, although a "Black Budget Program", MIG's are still being flown and tested today in TTR. You never know; the MIG you referenced, may very well be one still in testing today... MIG sightings are very common around Edwards AFB and the Groom Lake area.
The black world, is indeed a very small world. I personally appreciate your story.
Respectfully,
x
Likewise, I find your post very interesting indeed. Several years ago, I was assigned to a MIG program better known as the "Red Hats" at "TTR" Tonopah Test Range, located at the Northern most reaches of Groom Lake, NV. I remember some talk of a very similar story you made reference too.
Actually, although a "Black Budget Program", MIG's are still being flown and tested today in TTR. You never know; the MIG you referenced, may very well be one still in testing today... MIG sightings are very common around Edwards AFB and the Groom Lake area.
The black world, is indeed a very small world. I personally appreciate your story.
Respectfully,
x
Posted by Marty
- Jan 23, 2003, 01:02 AMx X x,
Interesting. Reminds me of a chat I had with a fellow about 20 years ago. We were soldering and debugging some circuits and chatting about odds and ends. The conversation turned to flying and he asked if I had done any flying. I admitted to taking some lessons in a small plane. I asked if he had done any flying.... He said yes and asked what I had flown. I said a Piper Cherokee 140. I looked at him and asked..... He said "a MIG" --- I nearly fell off my stool!
I then assumed he was flying some sort of model. Nope. It was an actual MIG.... FOR EAST BLOC FORCES!
Turned out he was an officer and one Sunday defected flying his MIG from Hungary to Italy. I believe he was the first person to do so. Needless to say he was put in something similar to the witness protection program.
I am relating this now because a few years after he told me this he went public and there was an article in the local paper about him. What he told me got me interested in following Sen Moynihan's writings on the Soviet collapse. One quote from the Sen. that sticks in my mind: "The Soviet Union (communism) is spiraling into the abyss..." This around 1984!
This is off topic but illustrates the need for government mechanisms that mask the normal identities that people have. In this case to hide such an identity from another nation, not just criminal enterprises.
-Marty
Quote from: x_X_x on Jan 22, 2003, 11:52 PM
Example; most any/all Federal Witness Protection convictions are sealed and cannot be found by DISCO, DSS, OPM, FBI, etc. ...
Interesting. Reminds me of a chat I had with a fellow about 20 years ago. We were soldering and debugging some circuits and chatting about odds and ends. The conversation turned to flying and he asked if I had done any flying. I admitted to taking some lessons in a small plane. I asked if he had done any flying.... He said yes and asked what I had flown. I said a Piper Cherokee 140. I looked at him and asked..... He said "a MIG" --- I nearly fell off my stool!
I then assumed he was flying some sort of model. Nope. It was an actual MIG.... FOR EAST BLOC FORCES!
Turned out he was an officer and one Sunday defected flying his MIG from Hungary to Italy. I believe he was the first person to do so. Needless to say he was put in something similar to the witness protection program.
I am relating this now because a few years after he told me this he went public and there was an article in the local paper about him. What he told me got me interested in following Sen Moynihan's writings on the Soviet collapse. One quote from the Sen. that sticks in my mind: "The Soviet Union (communism) is spiraling into the abyss..." This around 1984!
This is off topic but illustrates the need for government mechanisms that mask the normal identities that people have. In this case to hide such an identity from another nation, not just criminal enterprises.
-Marty
Posted by triple x
- Jan 22, 2003, 11:52 PMDear dimas,
With respect to your post, (very good) the information provided is not exactly accurate. Depending on the specific nature and circumstances of the offense, some "federally sealed" convictions cannot be found period... regardless of search method, i. e., NAC/LAC/NCIC, etc.
Example; most any/all Federal Witness Protection convictions are sealed and cannot be found by DISCO, DSS, OPM, FBI, etc. This is mostly due to protecting certain specifics and details contained within the report of a conviction that could possibly identify a former federal informant, witness, or possibly family members, locations, etc.
These types of "sealed" convictions can only be identified via a "higher authority" court order. Even the FBI cannot access these sealed cases, due to the risk of a rouge/corrupt FBI SA that may be willing to compromise or sell the sealed information to unethical "interested" parties. Only certain individuals (special agents) within the US Marshals Service work with and have access to high level federal sealed cases, and even then the actual agents are not "openly" acknowledged among their own co-workers within the US Marshals Service.
I used to work with a "special division" of the US Marshals Service (Con Air Unit) in which we were used to strictly relocate federal witnesses around the US. Of course; I no longer work with this agency, nor do I possess any knowledge of anyone that does. I do however currently work for the State Dept; on some occasion(s), I am loaned out to the DOJ, Department of Justice and DoD, Department of Defense.
Final note; I was once the immediate supervisor of a federal agency employee that was once involved in a federal witness case. The individual/former employee had years before plead guilty to having knowledge of certain criminal activity, and failing to report it. Which could have possibly prevented additional criminal acts from being committed. His case and records were federally sealed by the court, and could not be found during his background investigation for his TS security clearance. The individual felt compelled to inform me of this issue being in his past history since I was his immediate supervisor. (he possibly may have feared that I may discover the info anyway) He listed the conviction on his SF86, dates, location, etc., and the FBI investigator could not find any trace of the conviction. My point being; if he had not listed the sealed conviction in his SF86, I, nor, anyone else would ever have known... However, the individual was completely honest and forthright with the investigators, and they did not deem him as a security risk. The FBI and DSS both conducted individual and independent background investigations due to the position he was being hired into worked with multiple federal agencies, the DoD, DOE and DOJ. The issue was thoroughly investigated, adjudicated, and he was cleared for full TS with Special Access.
Please excuse my lengthy reply; however, I felt obligated and compelled to clarify that all "federal sealed convictions" cannot necessarily be found during a FBI/DSS/DISCO/OPM security clearance background investigation.
Respectfully,
x
With respect to your post, (very good) the information provided is not exactly accurate. Depending on the specific nature and circumstances of the offense, some "federally sealed" convictions cannot be found period... regardless of search method, i. e., NAC/LAC/NCIC, etc.
Example; most any/all Federal Witness Protection convictions are sealed and cannot be found by DISCO, DSS, OPM, FBI, etc. This is mostly due to protecting certain specifics and details contained within the report of a conviction that could possibly identify a former federal informant, witness, or possibly family members, locations, etc.
These types of "sealed" convictions can only be identified via a "higher authority" court order. Even the FBI cannot access these sealed cases, due to the risk of a rouge/corrupt FBI SA that may be willing to compromise or sell the sealed information to unethical "interested" parties. Only certain individuals (special agents) within the US Marshals Service work with and have access to high level federal sealed cases, and even then the actual agents are not "openly" acknowledged among their own co-workers within the US Marshals Service.
I used to work with a "special division" of the US Marshals Service (Con Air Unit) in which we were used to strictly relocate federal witnesses around the US. Of course; I no longer work with this agency, nor do I possess any knowledge of anyone that does. I do however currently work for the State Dept; on some occasion(s), I am loaned out to the DOJ, Department of Justice and DoD, Department of Defense.
Final note; I was once the immediate supervisor of a federal agency employee that was once involved in a federal witness case. The individual/former employee had years before plead guilty to having knowledge of certain criminal activity, and failing to report it. Which could have possibly prevented additional criminal acts from being committed. His case and records were federally sealed by the court, and could not be found during his background investigation for his TS security clearance. The individual felt compelled to inform me of this issue being in his past history since I was his immediate supervisor. (he possibly may have feared that I may discover the info anyway) He listed the conviction on his SF86, dates, location, etc., and the FBI investigator could not find any trace of the conviction. My point being; if he had not listed the sealed conviction in his SF86, I, nor, anyone else would ever have known... However, the individual was completely honest and forthright with the investigators, and they did not deem him as a security risk. The FBI and DSS both conducted individual and independent background investigations due to the position he was being hired into worked with multiple federal agencies, the DoD, DOE and DOJ. The issue was thoroughly investigated, adjudicated, and he was cleared for full TS with Special Access.
Please excuse my lengthy reply; however, I felt obligated and compelled to clarify that all "federal sealed convictions" cannot necessarily be found during a FBI/DSS/DISCO/OPM security clearance background investigation.
Respectfully,
x
Posted by dimas
- Jan 22, 2003, 01:36 PMRegarding BI's whether or not your records were sealed will not keep them from finding out this information. The problem that you face is that the original arrest is still in the police department's databank. By running your info with the local police it will come up that you were arrested for the offense. Whether or not found guilty usually won't come up. A problem that consistently happens to people is that they believe that when records are sealed they are simply wiped out of existence. The truth is that they usually only seal the County court records, but not the arresting agencies report of arrest. Best advice is to come clean, at least you will get a chance to explain it, if you don't they will simply disqualify you.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Posted by Anonymous
- Jan 17, 2003, 07:04 PMQuote from: question on Jan 09, 2003, 05:18 PM
Thanks for the help. I also know my record is sealed, does that matter, i figure they could get to it if they really want too. Just want to be sure, i dont want to be deceptive or anything.
Sealed records will show in a BI. Charges brought against you, whether dropped or not will show up in a BI. Just let them know. It will be worse if they find it themselves.
Posted by Skeptic
- Jan 09, 2003, 05:42 PMQuote from: question on Jan 09, 2003, 05:18 PM
Thanks for the help. I also know my record is sealed, does that matter, i figure they could get to it if they really want too. Just want to be sure, i dont want to be deceptive or anything.
Well, I am not in law enforcement, so I'm not familiar with the exact limits of what they could or could not dig up.
However, I tend to be rather paranoid about such things, and in my experience, they'll have you sign all sorts of waivers giving them lots of powers to look into things.
With such a minor incident so long ago, I can't imagine admitting to that sort of thing being a problem, if you are asked. I know counterintelligence people take severity of the offense, number of offenses and time passed between the offense into account. You can find adjudication records online for a couple of agencies that might give you an idea of how the thinking goes.
It stands to reason that you might buy a little extra scrutiny on the drug front after such an admission, but otherwise I wouldn't think it would hurt you.
Skeptic
Posted by Question
- Jan 09, 2003, 05:18 PMThanks for the help. I also know my record is sealed, does that matter, i figure they could get to it if they really want too. Just want to be sure, i dont want to be deceptive or anything.
Posted by Skeptic
- Jan 09, 2003, 02:26 AMQuote from: question on Jan 09, 2003, 01:26 AM
I was caught with a small amount of pot about 10 years ago, the charge was dropped, do you think the fbi would know about that. I dont smoke pot or condone it, stupid college thing what do you think, important or not
I think it sounds so minor and long ago it won't hurt you in the least to mention it. They might not even ask about involvement with drugs that far back. If they do, I'd be upfront about it, if only because they could find out about it (it involved law enforcement) and you wouldn't want to appear deceptive.
Skeptic
Posted by Question
- Jan 09, 2003, 01:26 AMI was caught with a small amount of pot about 10 years ago, the charge was dropped, do you think the fbi would know about that. I dont smoke pot or condone it, stupid college thing what do you think, important or not