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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by The Truth
- Feb 09, 2003, 03:08 AMIf you want the job, lie completely and apply countermeasures. Most of all believe your lies. A federal investigator will not even get involved unless it is above a secret clearance. So tell all your friends and relatives about the job and tell them to keep their mouth shut. The only time you really haft to worry is when you are going for a top secret or higher and a fed goes door to door from every location you have ever lived and interviews neighbors. Other than that it will be a form sent to the people and employers you fill out on your form(public trust questionarre) is one name for a secret clearance form.
As for the comment from false+ about getting into a mother of a nightmare if they find out that you lied is bull shit! Sure technically they could charge you, but that would never happen, you would just get fired or not get the job. lol
As for the comment from false+ about getting into a mother of a nightmare if they find out that you lied is bull shit! Sure technically they could charge you, but that would never happen, you would just get fired or not get the job. lol
Posted by dimas
- Dec 17, 2002, 02:27 PMMarty couldn't have said it better.
Posted by Marty
- Dec 17, 2002, 03:09 AMQuote from: Imagoodperson on Dec 15, 2002, 10:01 PM
The only problem is I've smoke a lot of marijuana in my time (3-7 days a week roughly) since I was 18 and I am now 23. I've smoked right up until the week before my urine test which I've passed. That was last week and at risk of sounding like I can't refuse temptation a friend offered it to me yet again and I took it last night.
You're at the wrong site. You need advise from antidrug.org (if it exists), not antipolygraph.org. If you smoke up to a week before a urine test you are cutting the line pretty close. You really need to get your drug problem dealt with now when it isn't totally dominating you. Good luck.
-Marty
Posted by Batman (Guest)
- Dec 16, 2002, 06:50 PMWell I just gotta had my two pennies to this one.
Goodperson,
If you take that polygraph dude you don't stand a chance. You're already sweating the results and the exam is, by your calculations, months away.
I love the three options you've come up with:
-"I could lie ..."
-"I could lie ..."
-"I could tell the whole truth ..."
-"I could tell a partial lie ..."
Given that 75% of the options you have developed center around lieing, I'd say that you're most likely going to lie. Give it a go! It's a great way to start off your career. You might have a good day, and the examiner has a bad day, and whalla, you got the clearance and the job!
I also found it interesting how you believe you can quit, "... I know I can quit.", but you also state, "... at risk of sounding like I can't refuse temptation a friend offered it to me yet again and I took it last night." Buddy, you're hooked. You simply like getting high more than anything else, that's why you're so willing to risk it all for a little toke of the funny weed.
Now you may not see yourself as a "burnout who will sell government secrets to support his debilitating addiction...", however if you chose to hide your use and get the job, just how far will you go to continue to hide your past? Just think, if you're in the job for a few years, making really good money (which you'll need to support your by then seven day a week recreational experimentation with weed), what would you be willing to do to keep your little secret a secret?
Smoke 'em if you got 'em dude!
Batman
Goodperson,
If you take that polygraph dude you don't stand a chance. You're already sweating the results and the exam is, by your calculations, months away.
I love the three options you've come up with:
-"I could lie ..."
-"I could lie ..."
-"I could tell the whole truth ..."
-"I could tell a partial lie ..."
Given that 75% of the options you have developed center around lieing, I'd say that you're most likely going to lie. Give it a go! It's a great way to start off your career. You might have a good day, and the examiner has a bad day, and whalla, you got the clearance and the job!
I also found it interesting how you believe you can quit, "... I know I can quit.", but you also state, "... at risk of sounding like I can't refuse temptation a friend offered it to me yet again and I took it last night." Buddy, you're hooked. You simply like getting high more than anything else, that's why you're so willing to risk it all for a little toke of the funny weed.
Now you may not see yourself as a "burnout who will sell government secrets to support his debilitating addiction...", however if you chose to hide your use and get the job, just how far will you go to continue to hide your past? Just think, if you're in the job for a few years, making really good money (which you'll need to support your by then seven day a week recreational experimentation with weed), what would you be willing to do to keep your little secret a secret?
Smoke 'em if you got 'em dude!
Batman
Posted by False +
- Dec 16, 2002, 05:07 PMImagoodperson,
I can tell you, as many here can attest, that if the government finds that your drug activity, as extensive as it is, is indeed recent, then you will definitely not get cleared. That much is a certainty. How you deal with the upcoming polygraph is up to you. But frankly, if you're used to getting high so often, I would submit to you that you have a substance abuse problem and that you might want to consider getting your house in check, as you've now graduated from college and are starting your adult life.
Without really knowing you, I'm not sure how you studied in college all while smoking up on most days of the week. Given this habit, can you really see yourself in a position of responsibility, be it goverment or private sector? In my humble opinion, the real issue on your plate is not this polygraph, but cleaning up your act.
If your job position requires a polygraph, it most certainly also requires a thorough background check. If you've been getting high for 5 years almost daily, do you think it will be that hard for a federal investigator to find out? As another poster pointed out, if they find out afterwards that you lied about this stuff, you're in for a mother of a nightmare; the consequences for you will be nothing like getting caught cheating on a college test (if that's the worse thing you can imagine).
I could be wrong, but from you've said, it looks more likely than not that your background check will turn up your drug use. Make your decisions based on this.
I can tell you, as many here can attest, that if the government finds that your drug activity, as extensive as it is, is indeed recent, then you will definitely not get cleared. That much is a certainty. How you deal with the upcoming polygraph is up to you. But frankly, if you're used to getting high so often, I would submit to you that you have a substance abuse problem and that you might want to consider getting your house in check, as you've now graduated from college and are starting your adult life.
Without really knowing you, I'm not sure how you studied in college all while smoking up on most days of the week. Given this habit, can you really see yourself in a position of responsibility, be it goverment or private sector? In my humble opinion, the real issue on your plate is not this polygraph, but cleaning up your act.
If your job position requires a polygraph, it most certainly also requires a thorough background check. If you've been getting high for 5 years almost daily, do you think it will be that hard for a federal investigator to find out? As another poster pointed out, if they find out afterwards that you lied about this stuff, you're in for a mother of a nightmare; the consequences for you will be nothing like getting caught cheating on a college test (if that's the worse thing you can imagine).
I could be wrong, but from you've said, it looks more likely than not that your background check will turn up your drug use. Make your decisions based on this.
Posted by anoynmous
- Dec 16, 2002, 02:42 AMThe polygraph is a mind game. Until they play by the rules, why should we? By telling the truth you are eliminated. It is up to you really...
Posted by Skeptic
- Dec 16, 2002, 12:53 AMQuote from: Polylawman on Dec 15, 2002, 11:10 PM
I'm glad you posted. I'm sure Lockheed-Martin will be surprised at what you have to say. After I forward this post to them I believe you will be able to smoke as much pot as you want without any worry.
Is this what it's getting to, george???
Polylawman,
Actually, it's pretty unlikely that Lockheed would be able to make use of the information posted here...as I understand it, they're in the process of hiring hundreds of electrical engineers alone thanks to large defense contracts they've recently received.
I don't understand your question to George -- is this what what is coming to?
Analyst
Posted by anonymus
- Dec 16, 2002, 12:32 AMimagoodperson,
let's set aside the ethics of partaking in recreational drugs, as they appear to be irrelavent to you anyway. if the company at which you wish to be empoyed has a 'no recreational drug use' policy, then don't you think you are ethically bound to either
1. abide by their rules
2. abstain from applying to that company
I personally don't have a problem with anyone putting anything into their bodies that they wish (as long as they don't operate heavy equipment and/or cause harm to others by doing so), but it looks like your potential employer does. If you lie about it, somehow get the job anyway, and then get caught under the influence anywhere at any time afterwards your emplyer can sue you in civil litigation. That means they take away your XBox, dude...... and you never, ever get to work in the field of your choice again, unless it's to open your own firm.
The polygraph is almost irrelavent to this discussion, as with just a little practice ANYONE can produce chart reactions those pinheads believe means you're telling the truth.
let's set aside the ethics of partaking in recreational drugs, as they appear to be irrelavent to you anyway. if the company at which you wish to be empoyed has a 'no recreational drug use' policy, then don't you think you are ethically bound to either
1. abide by their rules
2. abstain from applying to that company
I personally don't have a problem with anyone putting anything into their bodies that they wish (as long as they don't operate heavy equipment and/or cause harm to others by doing so), but it looks like your potential employer does. If you lie about it, somehow get the job anyway, and then get caught under the influence anywhere at any time afterwards your emplyer can sue you in civil litigation. That means they take away your XBox, dude...... and you never, ever get to work in the field of your choice again, unless it's to open your own firm.
The polygraph is almost irrelavent to this discussion, as with just a little practice ANYONE can produce chart reactions those pinheads believe means you're telling the truth.
Posted by Imagoodperson2
- Dec 16, 2002, 12:22 AMIt's alright it wasn't lockheed. 
Posted by Polylawman
- Dec 15, 2002, 11:10 PMI'm glad you posted. I'm sure Lockheed-Martin will be surprised at what you have to say. After I forward this post to them I believe you will be able to smoke as much pot as you want without any worry.
Is this what it's getting to, george???
Is this what it's getting to, george???
Posted by Skeptic
- Dec 15, 2002, 11:03 PMQuote from: Imagoodperson on Dec 15, 2002, 10:01 PM
:-/
I just graduated this past June as an Engineering major and I got a job offer from Lockheed Martin. Due to the fact that jobs are scarce out there right now for Engineers I have to take it. Oh and the compensation is pretty sweet.
Greetings from a fellow engineer, and congrats on your job offer. Your credentials must make you a desirable candidate.
QuoteThe only problem is I've smoke a lot of marijuana in my time (3-7 days a week roughly) since I was 18 and I am now 23. I've smoked right up until the week before my urine test which I've passed. That was last week and at risk of sounding like I can't refuse temptation a friend offered it to me yet again and I took it last night.
My start date is at the beginning of next month and I will have to go through the background check and POLYGRAPH. Now I know I'm not going to sell government secrets, but I'm a little worried about my personal recreational activities.
I wasn't aware that most private companies were polygraphing for security clearances.
QuoteI'm sure somebody on this website is familiar with the EPSQ I have to fill out before the clearance process starts. One of the questions is "have you ever used controlled substances such as MARIJUANA cocaine, heroin etc?" And if you answer yes you have to give the DURATION AND HOW MANY TIMES YOU'VE DONE IT. From what I understand my polygraph could be in a few months from now in which case I will be going to Lockheed every day for a while.
The way I look at it I have 4 options:
-I could lie on the EPSQ and the test that I've never tried marijuana and employ countermeasures. Since I'm lying I could continue to smoke. This would make my moods much more relaxed and the impending test wouldn't worry me as much.
-I could lie on both and NOT smoke from now on. (thinking if I quit now it won't SEEM like as much of a lie.)
-I could tell the whole truth, quit right now, and hope they don't have a problem with my former use of 3-7 days a week for 5 years up until now.
-I could tell a partial lie and say I've tried a good many times early in my college career, but have elected to not do it again after getting caught by the college (which I did once Freshman year). BUT ultimately I'm still lying.
I was wondering which would be the best course of action with all the factors described above? Now I like to smoke weed but I don't think that makes me a burnout who will sell government secrets to support his debilitating addiction <sarcastic> and I know I can quit. I've managed to make it through a tough engineering curriculum and I don't want to hear "I don't trust a stoner with government secrets." Please anyone who answers put your personal biases on marijuana aside and give me an objective opinion. This has been eating away at me and I need to get the "EPSQ" sent off very soon.
Thanks.
I'm always a little suspicious of posts like this...they sound a little too campy.
However, I'll respond with my opinion on the chance that your story's on the up and up. And I'll do my best to do so without an "anti-drugs" bias, even though I admittedly have one.
First of all, I'm unaware of any research that demonstrates those who use drugs illegally are more likely to violate security procedures and restrictions. For some drugs, however, I could certainly see a drug habit creating financial motivations to sell secrets. Further, if someone found out, they could blackmail you about it.
That said, Lockheed Martin and the government both have the right to set reasonable standards for employment (no, I don't include a random disqualification procedure such as a "passed" polygraph as a "reasonable standard"). Meeting those standards, especially for a security clearance, is a moral responsiblity, as is answering all relevant questions truthfully.
It is also very possible that such regular drug use will be discovered, at which point you'd lose your job and have a termination and falsified security materials on your record to boot.
Do your above-average professional qualifications a favor, develop some willpower, drop the drugs, and take a job with qualifications you meet at this time. There are other engineering jobs out there that don't require a security clearance.
Skeptic
Posted by Imagoodperson (Guest)
- Dec 15, 2002, 10:01 PM :-/
I just graduated this past June as an Engineering major and I got a job offer from Lockheed Martin. Due to the fact that jobs are scarce out there right now for Engineers I have to take it. Oh and the compensation is pretty sweet.
The only problem is I've smoke a lot of marijuana in my time (3-7 days a week roughly) since I was 18 and I am now 23. I've smoked right up until the week before my urine test which I've passed. That was last week and at risk of sounding like I can't refuse temptation a friend offered it to me yet again and I took it last night.
My start date is at the beginning of next month and I will have to go through the background check and POLYGRAPH. Now I know I'm not going to sell government secrets, but I'm a little worried about my personal recreational activities.
I'm sure somebody on this website is familiar with the EPSQ I have to fill out before the clearance process starts. One of the questions is "have you ever used controlled substances such as MARIJUANA cocaine, heroin etc?" And if you answer yes you have to give the DURATION AND HOW MANY TIMES YOU'VE DONE IT. From what I understand my polygraph could be in a few months from now in which case I will be going to Lockheed every day for a while.
The way I look at it I have 4 options:
-I could lie on the EPSQ and the test that I've never tried marijuana and employ countermeasures. Since I'm lying I could continue to smoke. This would make my moods much more relaxed and the impending test wouldn't worry me as much.
-I could lie on both and NOT smoke from now on. (thinking if I quit now it won't SEEM like as much of a lie.)
-I could tell the whole truth, quit right now, and hope they don't have a problem with my former use of 3-7 days a week for 5 years up until now.
-I could tell a partial lie and say I've tried a good many times early in my college career, but have elected to not do it again after getting caught by the college (which I did once Freshman year). BUT ultimately I'm still lying.
I was wondering which would be the best course of action with all the factors described above? Now I like to smoke weed but I don't think that makes me a burnout who will sell government secrets to support his debilitating addiction <sarcastic> and I know I can quit. I've managed to make it through a tough engineering curriculum and I don't want to hear "I don't trust a stoner with government secrets." Please anyone who answers put your personal biases on marijuana aside and give me an objective opinion. This has been eating away at me and I need to get the "EPSQ" sent off very soon.
Thanks.
I just graduated this past June as an Engineering major and I got a job offer from Lockheed Martin. Due to the fact that jobs are scarce out there right now for Engineers I have to take it. Oh and the compensation is pretty sweet.
The only problem is I've smoke a lot of marijuana in my time (3-7 days a week roughly) since I was 18 and I am now 23. I've smoked right up until the week before my urine test which I've passed. That was last week and at risk of sounding like I can't refuse temptation a friend offered it to me yet again and I took it last night.
My start date is at the beginning of next month and I will have to go through the background check and POLYGRAPH. Now I know I'm not going to sell government secrets, but I'm a little worried about my personal recreational activities.
I'm sure somebody on this website is familiar with the EPSQ I have to fill out before the clearance process starts. One of the questions is "have you ever used controlled substances such as MARIJUANA cocaine, heroin etc?" And if you answer yes you have to give the DURATION AND HOW MANY TIMES YOU'VE DONE IT. From what I understand my polygraph could be in a few months from now in which case I will be going to Lockheed every day for a while.
The way I look at it I have 4 options:
-I could lie on the EPSQ and the test that I've never tried marijuana and employ countermeasures. Since I'm lying I could continue to smoke. This would make my moods much more relaxed and the impending test wouldn't worry me as much.
-I could lie on both and NOT smoke from now on. (thinking if I quit now it won't SEEM like as much of a lie.)
-I could tell the whole truth, quit right now, and hope they don't have a problem with my former use of 3-7 days a week for 5 years up until now.
-I could tell a partial lie and say I've tried a good many times early in my college career, but have elected to not do it again after getting caught by the college (which I did once Freshman year). BUT ultimately I'm still lying.
I was wondering which would be the best course of action with all the factors described above? Now I like to smoke weed but I don't think that makes me a burnout who will sell government secrets to support his debilitating addiction <sarcastic> and I know I can quit. I've managed to make it through a tough engineering curriculum and I don't want to hear "I don't trust a stoner with government secrets." Please anyone who answers put your personal biases on marijuana aside and give me an objective opinion. This has been eating away at me and I need to get the "EPSQ" sent off very soon.
Thanks.