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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by stopnik
- Dec 17, 2002, 02:07 PMThank you. In fact, when some of the knuckleheads get on their high and mighty horses and start lecturing about LE integrity, I think they need to wake-up. I kid you not -- I continually heard (when I was with the FD) LEO say with a totally straight face, "I never did drugs but man I always got sh*t faced!"
And forget about the double standards of driving while on duty. I am talking about the fact that policemen and firemen are some of the heaviest drinkers -- and they are not afraid to get behind the wheel. I personally know quite a few FDNY guys who routinely got drunk at work (beer cans in the soda machine routine). I've been on fire trucks that we had to stop on a run because the driver was too drunk to continue. I got so burned up everytime I saw one of them get into an accident and then walk away because of the "Blue Wall/Red Wall" of covering each other's back.
The polygraph is stupid, useless, and humiliating. But then again - maybe I shouldn't complain. Rather than take a job with the CIA 12 years ago, I am doing quite nicely in private industry. BUT I AM TIRED OF HEARING THE SAME STUPID PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT LEO AND INTEGRITY! They are human beings -- but less accountable because they are always covering for each other.
And forget about the double standards of driving while on duty. I am talking about the fact that policemen and firemen are some of the heaviest drinkers -- and they are not afraid to get behind the wheel. I personally know quite a few FDNY guys who routinely got drunk at work (beer cans in the soda machine routine). I've been on fire trucks that we had to stop on a run because the driver was too drunk to continue. I got so burned up everytime I saw one of them get into an accident and then walk away because of the "Blue Wall/Red Wall" of covering each other's back.
The polygraph is stupid, useless, and humiliating. But then again - maybe I shouldn't complain. Rather than take a job with the CIA 12 years ago, I am doing quite nicely in private industry. BUT I AM TIRED OF HEARING THE SAME STUPID PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT LEO AND INTEGRITY! They are human beings -- but less accountable because they are always covering for each other.
Posted by stopnik
- Dec 17, 2002, 02:06 PMAnd before anyone asks why I am on this board. I am contemplating getting a LE job. I want to give back to the community, blah, blah, blah -- plus you can't beat the benefits. I plan to lie my a** off on the polygraph (did I do weed 17 times versus 30? Who the heck knows!). But I am highly educated, bilingual, and haven't touched dope in 10 years. So who cares what I did in the past as long as it doesn't show up officially.
George -- you have a wonderful site. Keep up the good work.
George -- you have a wonderful site. Keep up the good work.
Posted by stopnik
- Dec 17, 2002, 02:03 PMThank you. In fact, when some of the knuckleheads get on their high and mighty horses and start lecturing about LE integrity, I think they need to wake-up. I kid you not -- I continually heard (when I was with the FD) LEO say with a totally straight face, "I never did drugs but man I always got sh*t faced!"
And forget about the double standards of driving while on duty. I am talking about the fact that policemen and firemen are some of the heaviest drinkers -- and they are not afraid to get behind the wheel. I personally know quite a few FDNY guys who routinely got drunk at work (beer cans in the soda machine routine). I've been on fire trucks that we had to stop on a run because the driver was too drunk to continue. I got so burned up everytime I saw one of them get into an accident and then walk away because of the "Blue Wall/Red Wall" of covering each other's back.
The polygraph is stupid, useless, and humiliating. But then again - maybe I shouldn't complain. Rather than take a job with the CIA 12 years ago, I am doing quite nicely in private industry. BUT I AM TIRED OF HEARING THE SAME STUPID PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT LEO AND INTEGRITY! They are human beings -- but less accountable because they are always covering for each other.
And forget about the double standards of driving while on duty. I am talking about the fact that policemen and firemen are some of the heaviest drinkers -- and they are not afraid to get behind the wheel. I personally know quite a few FDNY guys who routinely got drunk at work (beer cans in the soda machine routine). I've been on fire trucks that we had to stop on a run because the driver was too drunk to continue. I got so burned up everytime I saw one of them get into an accident and then walk away because of the "Blue Wall/Red Wall" of covering each other's back.
The polygraph is stupid, useless, and humiliating. But then again - maybe I shouldn't complain. Rather than take a job with the CIA 12 years ago, I am doing quite nicely in private industry. BUT I AM TIRED OF HEARING THE SAME STUPID PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT LEO AND INTEGRITY! They are human beings -- but less accountable because they are always covering for each other.
Posted by Twoblock
- Dec 17, 2002, 12:23 PMStopnik
You are right on the mark. Even though I condem both uses while driving, there are many, many more vehicle accidents due to spirits than there ever will be from the weed. And cops driving drunk is doubly bad because they are supposed to be setting an example even when offduty. And yes, there are far too many who do this and get by with it when caught. I continually see uniformed officers breaking traffic laws, speeding, running stop signs, etc., WITHOUT emergency lights or sound in effect. That doesn't influence me to do the same thing but it certainly could influence a youngster.
I wonder how many LE officers could pass a polygraph after 5 years on the force?
No, I am not against LE as some here may want to imply. I just believe they should have to abide by the same laws as the rest of us.
You are right on the mark. Even though I condem both uses while driving, there are many, many more vehicle accidents due to spirits than there ever will be from the weed. And cops driving drunk is doubly bad because they are supposed to be setting an example even when offduty. And yes, there are far too many who do this and get by with it when caught. I continually see uniformed officers breaking traffic laws, speeding, running stop signs, etc., WITHOUT emergency lights or sound in effect. That doesn't influence me to do the same thing but it certainly could influence a youngster.
I wonder how many LE officers could pass a polygraph after 5 years on the force?
No, I am not against LE as some here may want to imply. I just believe they should have to abide by the same laws as the rest of us.
Posted by stopnik
- Dec 17, 2002, 11:38 AMOne other thing to consider that is quite laughable. I come from a firefighting background (then went to college and shifted career gears). While you will see many "holier than thou posts" (i.e.: read Parochial School Mentality) proclaiming the evils of smoking weed -- LE is literally plauged with drinkers. Heavy,heavy drinkers. People who often say, " I won't touch drugs but man I really love to get drunk." Stop by any police watering-hole and you will consistently see inebriated cops getting behind the wheel. Ever read about them getting busted at DUI check-points? I have personally pulled drunk cops from wrecked cars and watched them being let off with a wink and nudge.
My advice -- lie, pass the test, move on with your live (while keeping your trap securely shut), and for heavens sake -- don't ever do drugs (or even drink that heavily) ever again. Who the heck hasn't started a career off with some degree of a lie. Be realistic -- but then again, be smart, and hold up the integrity of the profession you are choosing once you are in the fold.
My advice -- lie, pass the test, move on with your live (while keeping your trap securely shut), and for heavens sake -- don't ever do drugs (or even drink that heavily) ever again. Who the heck hasn't started a career off with some degree of a lie. Be realistic -- but then again, be smart, and hold up the integrity of the profession you are choosing once you are in the fold.
Posted by WRT55
- Dec 16, 2002, 05:22 PMI dislike polygraph examinations. I haven't found them to be accurate indicators of anything. Having said that, I too have a problem with you wanting to start off your police career by lying about your background. You can likely beat the exam and get hired because police agencies use the polygraph exam as the cheapest way to screen candidates.
Sadly, your drug usage indicates choices that I would not wish to see wearing a badge and uniform.
Sadly, your drug usage indicates choices that I would not wish to see wearing a badge and uniform.
Posted by stopnik
- Dec 16, 2002, 02:09 PMValid question...I cannot find any place to practice. You will run into some strange people on this website. I personally smoked dope with several NYC cops/firemen - whose remains are still scattered at the WTC. Cops - admittedly before they were hired by NYPD -- firemen, still "on the job."
I would take my NYPD job and run -- why mess it up with a poly? You will find some strange people on this site -- they have a parochial school mentality where there is black, white, and no shades of grey. They are easy to anger because they probably have the most to hide.
I took a poly once 12 years ago -- and failed miserably although I told the truth! The process is flawed -- whether you are lying or not. So why risk countermeasures, etc, if you can take the NYPD job and have a good life.
I would take my NYPD job and run -- why mess it up with a poly? You will find some strange people on this site -- they have a parochial school mentality where there is black, white, and no shades of grey. They are easy to anger because they probably have the most to hide.
I took a poly once 12 years ago -- and failed miserably although I told the truth! The process is flawed -- whether you are lying or not. So why risk countermeasures, etc, if you can take the NYPD job and have a good life.
Posted by johnanon
- Dec 02, 2002, 12:40 PMThanks Fair Chance, I've actually already have been involved
in LE for a few years as an auxiliary P.O. and after getting a degree in computer science and working in that field for a little over 2 years I've decided that LE is what I would like to
do. So I have thought quite a bit, but who knows how things will go.
And PolyLawMan whats is your f'n problem what mommy and daddy didnt give you enough love...
in LE for a few years as an auxiliary P.O. and after getting a degree in computer science and working in that field for a little over 2 years I've decided that LE is what I would like to
do. So I have thought quite a bit, but who knows how things will go.
And PolyLawMan whats is your f'n problem what mommy and daddy didnt give you enough love...
Posted by Fair Chance
- Dec 02, 2002, 10:04 AMQuote from: johnanon on Nov 29, 2002, 07:33 PM
I am currently interested in joining a police department
that requires a polygraph. I am of good moral character
but my past has some drug history that I believe will
bar me, even more is the fact that I have already applied
to the NYPD and stated that I have had no past drug history.
NYPD is in the process of hiring me but I would rather have
the other high paying police job.
Dear johnanon,
You are dancing around the devil on this one. You are within drug guidelines or you are not. The statement that you believe your drug history will bar you is a good indicator that you should rethink your decision. If money is your main motivator to get into law enforcement, you will have a very frustrating and possibly corrupt career. Law enforcement exposes you to the most negative aspects of life and the "Dark Side" can lure you into a direction which is impossible to recover from (especially if money is your motivator).
Sit down and think long and hard about this one.
Regards.
Posted by Skeptic
- Dec 02, 2002, 03:03 AMQuote from: polylawman on Dec 02, 2002, 02:49 AM
AWWWWWWWWWWW Did I get you angry?
You must be another malcontent that "Never Inhaled" and wasn't good enough to get a real job. Don't blame your shortcomings on anyone but yourself.
The truth hurts. Dosn't it?
Another polygrapher demonstrates what a polygraph subject may be in for in agreeing to take a polygraph. Imagine if the above person, with his or her obvious cynicism, disdain for logic, and subjective inability to sympathize with others were to be the polygrapher in your upcoming test. Imagine further that there will be no video or audio recording of the session -- he or she is free to claim you said anything he or she pleases.
The use of this subjective, fallible test of "truth" should be abolished, period.
Skeptic
Posted by polylawman
- Dec 02, 2002, 02:49 AMAWWWWWWWWWWW Did I get you angry?
You must be another malcontent that "Never Inhaled" and wasn't good enough to get a real job. Don't blame your shortcomings on anyone but yourself.
The truth hurts. Dosn't it?
You must be another malcontent that "Never Inhaled" and wasn't good enough to get a real job. Don't blame your shortcomings on anyone but yourself.
The truth hurts. Dosn't it?
Posted by johnanon
- Dec 02, 2002, 12:33 AMSorry Marty it wasnt you who was the jackass it was polylawman!
Posted by johnanon
- Dec 02, 2002, 12:31 AMThanks MARTY I'll do just that, your a genius! 
Posted by Marty
- Nov 29, 2002, 10:18 PMQuote from: johnanon on Nov 29, 2002, 07:33 PM
I am of good moral character
but my past has some drug history that I believe will
bar me, even more is the fact that I have already applied
to the NYPD and stated that I have had no past drug history.
NYPD is in the process of hiring me but I would rather have
the other high paying police job. If I decide to tell the second
agency the truth about my history they might see that my
answers with NYPD dont jive and inform NYPD of the situation
for which I might not receive an invitation to either possition.
Well, by starting off making your own decisions about what "good moral character" is, you are going down a dangerous path. I don't relish the idea that lots of LE personel started off their career lying. I think the polygraph is one step removed from voodoo but each hiring agency has the right to set their own standards and it is reasonable for them to ask you not to lie if you don't meet them.
I hope you don't choose to lie for personal gain.
-Marty
Posted by polylawman
- Nov 29, 2002, 08:57 PMTry what george says in his book and see what happens.
After you get caught using these countermeasures come back to this site and tell us what happened.
and then you can thank grorge.
After you get caught using these countermeasures come back to this site and tell us what happened.
and then you can thank grorge.