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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by stefano
- Oct 20, 2012, 01:42 AMGee, I was trying my best to steer this thread into a meaningful dimension, it would have been interesting.
Posted by Doug Williams
- Oct 19, 2012, 09:59 PMQuote from: Bill_Brown on Oct 19, 2012, 09:30 PMMr. Williams,
You seem to have a high opinion of yourself, and you are in the minority. Ego is good, but as with anything, an over abundance becomes self defeating. Sell your book and make a profit, however putting down other members of the board is not to your advantage, it demeans you. Best of luck in your sales venture.
I am sure I am in the minority in your group of polygraph operators. And you seem to be doing a good job of putting me down (subtly) so I will not pay much attention to your advice.
I don't think I was doing anything other than responding to the vitriol quickfix was spewing out at me.
But thanks for wishing me luck.
This whole thread has been hijacked and derailed - so I think I'll end my part in it for now. See you all again in a few years, (maybe).
If anyone (besides polygraphers) have any questions or comments about my book, you may email me - my email address is doug@polygraph.com
And to my friend Bill who started this thread, email me if you check back in and read this, my last post.
Posted by Bill_Brown
- Oct 19, 2012, 09:30 PMMr. Williams,
You seem to have a high opinion of yourself, and you are in the minority. Ego is good, but as with anything, an over abundance becomes self defeating. Sell your book and make a profit, however putting down other members of the board is not to your advantage, it demeans you. Best of luck in your sales venture.
You seem to have a high opinion of yourself, and you are in the minority. Ego is good, but as with anything, an over abundance becomes self defeating. Sell your book and make a profit, however putting down other members of the board is not to your advantage, it demeans you. Best of luck in your sales venture.
Posted by stefano
- Oct 19, 2012, 07:55 PMMr. Williams,
In the last chapter of your book you state:
"If you are already a government employee or a civilian contractor, and if you are accused of using "countermeasures", and you are damaged as a result, i.e. loss of security clearance, or loss of employment - do not admit to using "countermeasures" even if you have! Instead, take action - get a good attorney and file a malpractice lawsuit against the polygraph examiner!"
Would an attorney be able to successfully subpoena polygraph charts for scrutiny by a separate entity? Seems that if the Attorney General can thumb his nose at us even after being held in contempt of congress, that this may be an impossible battle? Also, the applicant may be afraid to be labled as a trouble maker thereby eliminating his chances for future employment--I would guess that you don't get too many Christmas cards from polygraph operators.
Comments?
In the last chapter of your book you state:
"If you are already a government employee or a civilian contractor, and if you are accused of using "countermeasures", and you are damaged as a result, i.e. loss of security clearance, or loss of employment - do not admit to using "countermeasures" even if you have! Instead, take action - get a good attorney and file a malpractice lawsuit against the polygraph examiner!"
Would an attorney be able to successfully subpoena polygraph charts for scrutiny by a separate entity? Seems that if the Attorney General can thumb his nose at us even after being held in contempt of congress, that this may be an impossible battle? Also, the applicant may be afraid to be labled as a trouble maker thereby eliminating his chances for future employment--I would guess that you don't get too many Christmas cards from polygraph operators.
Comments?
Posted by Doug Williams
- Oct 19, 2012, 03:01 PMQuote from: quickfix on Oct 19, 2012, 02:47 PMRe-read your own post:
"I am only concerned with telling the story of how I have already put a stop to most of the polygraph tests run in this country when I got the EPPA passed."
Really? YOU? All by yourself???
And by the way, not identifying oneself on this or similar sites is a protection we have in this country. You're too dimwitted to recognize even that, and you yourself ended polygraph in America?
I have already explained what I meant when I said that. I did not do it by myself - but I can say what many members of congress, the ACLU, AFL-CIO and many others have told me, and that is the EPPA would never have become a federal law without me.
And you're right, you don't have to put your name on your rants - I would not put my name on the crap you spout either. Besides your boss at the FBI would not appreciate you wasting your time posting on this site when you should be terrorizing applicants with your polygraph machine.
Posted by quickfix
- Oct 19, 2012, 02:47 PMRe-read your own post:
"I am only concerned with telling the story of how I have already put a stop to most of the polygraph tests run in this country when I got the EPPA passed."
Really? YOU? All by yourself???
And by the way, not identifying oneself on this or similar sites is a protection we have in this country. You're too dimwitted to recognize even that, and you yourself ended polygraph in America?
"I am only concerned with telling the story of how I have already put a stop to most of the polygraph tests run in this country when I got the EPPA passed."
Really? YOU? All by yourself???
And by the way, not identifying oneself on this or similar sites is a protection we have in this country. You're too dimwitted to recognize even that, and you yourself ended polygraph in America?
Posted by Doug Williams
- Oct 19, 2012, 09:13 AMQuote from: stefano on Oct 18, 2012, 10:01 PMMr. Williams,
Quickfix notes that polygraphy is still alive and well in the U.S. and that every federal investigative agency uses it, along with many state and local Police Depts.
I'd like to get your take on the future of this. Is polygraphy so entrenched in the govt sector that it is untouchable? Is there some effective strategy that could be considered to bring this down once and for all?
Yes I give many suggestions in the last chapter of my book. And for the record, I never said I was the person most responsible for the passage of the EPPA, the ACLU said that when they gave me the VOLUNTEER ADVOCATE award. That is a matter of record. When I say "I", I simply mean that was my goal and I spent 10 years doing everything I could to make it happen - details of those 10 years are in the book. But the main reason the EPPA passed is the millions of victims finally had a spokesman - a polygraph examiner who finally told the truth about the abuse perpetrated by the polygraph industry. That was the one thing that had been missing - a whistle blower. My testimony in congress was more of a confession than an accusation - that is what made it so effective. A transcript of that testimony is also in the book. If the polygraph victims get organized again, and they are starting to do just that, the polygraph industry will finally be completely destroyed!
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Oct 19, 2012, 12:06 AMQuote from: pillpopper on Oct 15, 2012, 11:59 PMjust checking in. been awhile. my personal statement is on this site (Bill Crider). Been 8-10 years now and I still have never sold or used any FUC&%$-ing drugs. Thanks FBI. Idiots.
--Peace
Bill, it's nice to hear from you. Thanks again for sharing your experience with the FBI's pre-employment polygraph screening program.
For those following this thread, Bill Crider's personal statement is available here:
https://antipolygraph.org/statements/statement-026.shtml
Posted by stefano
- Oct 18, 2012, 10:01 PMMr. Williams,
Quickfix notes that polygraphy is still alive and well in the U.S. and that every federal investigative agency uses it, along with many state and local Police Depts.
I'd like to get your take on the future of this. Is polygraphy so entrenched in the govt sector that it is untouchable? Is there some effective strategy that could be considered to bring this down once and for all?
Quickfix notes that polygraphy is still alive and well in the U.S. and that every federal investigative agency uses it, along with many state and local Police Depts.
I'd like to get your take on the future of this. Is polygraphy so entrenched in the govt sector that it is untouchable? Is there some effective strategy that could be considered to bring this down once and for all?
Posted by Doug Williams
- Oct 18, 2012, 06:01 PMThis is an email I recently recieved:
Doug,
Well I must say,you are my newest hero.You are an honorable man worthy of great admiration.
People will be reading your name many years into the future.
As you remember I called you just several minutes after finding your web site,I did not even expect you to answer. Before that I had no idea who you were.
Yes,I do wish I had read your book first.
When the "expert" was hooking me up I remember half jokingly asking "do they have a truth test that uses brain waves"? He told me that there is a researcher working on this. Talk about Frankensteins monster !!
I was required to sign a release form. I went into the test not knowing anything about polygraph. I purposely did not read anything. I thought that if I go into it relaxed with a clear head and go with the flow it would reflect that I was telling the truth which I was,and I failed.
Thank You for caring so much about people and what is right.
Tom
Thanks Tom - Tom is a victim of the myth of "lie detection" and he is only one of millions. This industry has to be destroyed and I am happy to play even a small part in its destruction!
And FYI "Quickfix", even a third string quarterback can sometimes throw a pass that wins the superbowl! And when the polygraph industry is finally destroyed, and you find yourself on the street looking for a job to earn an honest living, (for the first time in your life), remember that it was a third string quarterback that did it to you!
Doug,
Well I must say,you are my newest hero.You are an honorable man worthy of great admiration.
People will be reading your name many years into the future.
As you remember I called you just several minutes after finding your web site,I did not even expect you to answer. Before that I had no idea who you were.
Yes,I do wish I had read your book first.
When the "expert" was hooking me up I remember half jokingly asking "do they have a truth test that uses brain waves"? He told me that there is a researcher working on this. Talk about Frankensteins monster !!
I was required to sign a release form. I went into the test not knowing anything about polygraph. I purposely did not read anything. I thought that if I go into it relaxed with a clear head and go with the flow it would reflect that I was telling the truth which I was,and I failed.
Thank You for caring so much about people and what is right.
Tom
Thanks Tom - Tom is a victim of the myth of "lie detection" and he is only one of millions. This industry has to be destroyed and I am happy to play even a small part in its destruction!
And FYI "Quickfix", even a third string quarterback can sometimes throw a pass that wins the superbowl! And when the polygraph industry is finally destroyed, and you find yourself on the street looking for a job to earn an honest living, (for the first time in your life), remember that it was a third string quarterback that did it to you!
Posted by Doug Williams
- Oct 18, 2012, 05:38 PMI would simply ask that people read the book, (something "QUICKFIX" obviously hasn't done), and look at the videos - and by the way, they are much more than 15 minutes in length (even when heavily edited) - and the last one, PENN & TELLER: THE LIE DETECTOR IS BULLSHIT was not that long ago. My "15 minutes" has stretched into over thirty years - much to the consternation of these con men!
I have made my case against the so called "lie detector", and I actually have one chapter where I detail courtroom testimony of both myself and a polygraph operator, and show that I can absolutely destroy them in a court of law. I often testify in court and never lose an argument - just read that chapter and see for yourself whose argument prevails. The last time I testified was just a few weeks ago. Yes, I'm still here, still relevant, and still kicking the polygraph industry where it hurts! That is why they are so upset!
And it is the mark of a true coward to take shots at me and be afraid (or ashamed) to use his or her real name.
I have made my case against the so called "lie detector", and I actually have one chapter where I detail courtroom testimony of both myself and a polygraph operator, and show that I can absolutely destroy them in a court of law. I often testify in court and never lose an argument - just read that chapter and see for yourself whose argument prevails. The last time I testified was just a few weeks ago. Yes, I'm still here, still relevant, and still kicking the polygraph industry where it hurts! That is why they are so upset!
And it is the mark of a true coward to take shots at me and be afraid (or ashamed) to use his or her real name.
Posted by quickfix
- Oct 18, 2012, 05:07 PMStefano: re-read his next-to-last post; you honestly believe that this former OK City cop is "the one" who put an end to polygraph is the US? First of all, polygraph is alive and well in the US. Every federal investigative agency uses it, along with many state and local PDs. US Customs/Border Patrol just recently went on a massive hiring crusade for more polygraphers. Several federal agencies (including mine) just set all-time records for screening polys conducted. Mr Williams is crowing about singlehandedly ending polygraph in America, and it's simply bullshit. He ended nothing. He was "involved", along with many others, in changes to EPPA, which governs the use of polygraph in the private sector only. And, a 20-minute segment on 60 Minutes, 20-20, Dateline, or other type shows doesn't make one instrumental; it's 15 minutes of fame, and his 15 minutes were up long ago. Finally, Mr Williams would have you believe that he's done thousands and thousands of polygraphs, including some for the FBI and USSS. I can assure you that the FBI, the nation's premier law enforcement agency, would not ask a local examiner to conduct polys for them. Based on his advertised experience, he would have had to conduct 10 polys a day, 7 days a week for years to have the numbers he claims to have done. His experience claims lack credibility. So, involved? Yes. Instrumental? About as instrumental as a third-string quarterback is in helping his team win the Super Bowl.
Posted by stefano
- Oct 18, 2012, 03:47 PMQuickfix, if you can provide substantive details as to why Mr. Williams was not instrumental in passing the EPPA, I'd like to hear it.
Posted by quickfix
- Oct 18, 2012, 03:16 PMThe "many" you refer to are a figment of your imagination. Whatever you're on, cut the dosage!
Posted by Doug Williams
- Oct 18, 2012, 11:10 AMRead the book - the proof is all there right in the appendix. Read what the editor wrote: "Before December of 1988, three out of every four people in private industry in the U.S. had to pass a polygraph test in order to get or keep a job; after December of 1988, that was illegal. How did that happen? Legislation to prohibit this type of polygraph testing had been introduced every year since 1972, and every year it failed to pass – every year, that is, until 1988. Why did that legislation finally succeed? Many say it was primarily due to the efforts of Doug Williams. As a matter of fact, Doug Williams was given the VOLUNTEER ADVOCATE award by the ACLU for being "the one person most responsible for the Employee Polygraph Protection Act becoming a Federal Law".
Watch the videos on my website, pay particular attention to CBS 60 MINUTES; in this classic investigative report, three out of three polygraph operators called three different truthful people liars on a crime that never even happened. I have been featured on most of the major news programs, and on all of the major television and cable networks including CBS 60 MINUTES, CBS NIGHTWATCH, NBC NIGHTLY NEWS, CNN NEWS, FOX NETWORK'S EXPLORING THE UNKNOWN, NBC DATELINE, FOX NEWS, CNN NEWS STAND, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, BBC, TLC, and SHOWTIME PENN & TELLER: BULLSHIT!
But your vitriolic responses prove that I have done what I say I have done - if I hadn't, you would not be responding this way.
Watch the videos on my website, pay particular attention to CBS 60 MINUTES; in this classic investigative report, three out of three polygraph operators called three different truthful people liars on a crime that never even happened. I have been featured on most of the major news programs, and on all of the major television and cable networks including CBS 60 MINUTES, CBS NIGHTWATCH, NBC NIGHTLY NEWS, CNN NEWS, FOX NETWORK'S EXPLORING THE UNKNOWN, NBC DATELINE, FOX NEWS, CNN NEWS STAND, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, BBC, TLC, and SHOWTIME PENN & TELLER: BULLSHIT!
But your vitriolic responses prove that I have done what I say I have done - if I hadn't, you would not be responding this way.