Post reply

The message has the following error or errors that must be corrected before continuing:
Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.
Attachments: (Clear attachments)
Restrictions: 4 per post (4 remaining), maximum total size 192 KB, maximum individual size 64.00 MB
Uncheck the attachments you no longer want attached
Click or drag files here to attach them.
(Clear attachments)
Other options
Verification:
Please leave this box empty:
Type the letters shown in the picture
Listen to the letters / Request another image

Type the letters shown in the picture:
What is the last name of the first U.S. president?:
Shortcuts: ALT+S post or ALT+P preview

Topic summary

Posted by Sampson
 - Feb 27, 2011, 01:11 PM
Sorry for possibly bumping an old thread, but I have a similar situation; and one of the forms I am filling out asks if I have ever been denied a security clearance.  Could I answer this "no" based on the above??
Posted by George W. Maschke
 - Jan 12, 2009, 06:34 AM
Quote from: sheesh on Jan 12, 2009, 03:46 AMSo if anyone remembers my original post about a month and a half ago, I was told I failed the polygraph by the examiner. My recruiter told me I would have to wait a couple weeks for HQ to determine my results.

For the benefit of everyone reading this, the post in question is Failed FBI Polygraph... confused.

QuoteYesterday, I got a rejection letter from the FBI... and I'm not sure what it means or what I should do next. The letter states that "after careful consideration, you were not selected". However, it also states "Our action to rescind your Conditional Appointment Offer does not constitute a security denial. On future security applications and forms you may affirm, insofar as it relates to this action, you were not denied a security clearance."

It seems that the FBI has changed the standard form letter that it sends to those who fail the polygraph to omit any mention of the polygraph results. Compare the language of your letter to that posted by devastated2day. A possible motivation for not mentioning the polygraph would be to discourage appeals of polygraph decisions.

QuoteSo, what exactly does this mean? Did I fail the polygraph, or were they just not sure enough they decided to send me this? If you saw my original post I'm not sure why the examiner failed me and to this day I still don't know.

While polygraphers may bluff an examinee for admissions, your polygrapher's statement that you failed combined with the rejection letter is a pretty good indication that you did indeed fail the polygraph.

QuoteIf I apply to another agency, I've heard the FBI maintains a file... what will it show? If they said I was not denied a security clearance does that still mean anything negative if I decide to go for one in the future?

Your FBI file will include your polygraph results. It will also have the results of the various tests you took and the paperwork you submitted in connection with your application.

QuoteAlso... on another topic, but still important to the original question. As another possibility in the future. My wife and I have discussed relocating to new zealand. One of the requirements for residency is a police check requring an FBI background check. One of the jobs I was looking at required a Security Clearance with the government of NZ in which 5 years as a NZ resident or 15 years as a British/American citizen is required... this was a NZ government financial analyst position. Will this affect me in any way ( lets say it was the result of failing a polygraph ). In other words... who gets to see this file and what will it contain if I was not denied a security clearance... and does anyone know how far this goes internationally.. in the event I apply for a job overseas with a foreign company.

I don't know whether there is an arrangement between the U.S. and New Zealand governments that would allow disclosure of your FBI file to the latter. I'm doubtful that the FBI would conduct an actual "background check" on an American seeking employment in New Zealand. Perhaps what is meant is a criminal records check, in which case I assume you won't have a problem.

QuoteThanks! Any suggestions on what I can do... or what I should do would be appreciated. I was e-mailed by my recruiter that I can request another attempt... but I already have other things on my plate that, especially after coming here, are more worthwhile. I just hope there is a limit to where this follows me... when I did nothing wrong in the first place.

One thing you should do is to write a letter to the FBI employee whose signature block appears on the rejection letter you received. In your letter, you'll want to contest the polygrapher's false accusation of deception and state for the record that you told the truth. This letter should be added to your FBI file and will document the fact that you didn't, through your silence, tacitly accept the polygrapher's accusation that you lied.

Second, as I mentioned in my reply to your earlier post, you'll want to file a Privacy Act request for your entire FBI file. You'll want to know precisely what admissions your polygrapher may have attributed to you. Instructions for filing FBI Privacy Act requests are available here:

http://foia.fbi.gov/privacy_instruc.htm

I also hope that the career harm you suffer as a consequence of your FBI polygraph experience will be minimal. Unfortunately, a failed FBI polygraph can be an impediment to employment elsewhere in government. While this comes late for you, I think the best option for anyone considering FBI employment is to "just say no" because the risks associated with the polygraph outweigh the potential rewards.
Posted by sheesh
 - Jan 12, 2009, 04:30 AM
One thing to add... George, or anyone else who could help:

In one of your recent posts you advised someone:

You'll want to write a polite but firm letter to the FBI contesting your polygrapher's false accusation of deception. This letter should be added to your permanent FBI file and will document the fact that you do not tacitly concur with the accusation of deception.

You'll also want to file a Privacy Act request for your entire FBI file, including (but not limited to) all documentation associated with your polygraph examination. It is not unheard of for polygraphers to exaggerate or even fabricate admissions. Because they are rated on the basis of admissions obtained after "deception indicated" charts, they have an incentive to overstate an examinee's admissions, and with the FBI's no-recording policy, they face little risk in doing so.


Just so I'm clear. Should I send a letter contesting my deception to my recruiter or to the FBI itself?
Posted by sheesh
 - Jan 12, 2009, 03:46 AM
So if anyone remembers my original post about a month and a half ago, I was told I failed the polygraph by the examiner. My recruiter told me I would have to wait a couple weeks for HQ to determine my results.

Yesterday, I got a rejection letter from the FBI... and I'm not sure what it means or what I should do next. The letter states that "after careful consideration, you were not selected". However, it also states "Our action to rescind your Conditional Appointment Offer does not constitute a security denial. On future security applications and forms you may affirm, insofar as it relates to this action, you were not denied a security clearance."

So, what exactly does this mean? Did I fail the polygraph, or were they just not sure enough they decided to send me this? If you saw my original post I'm not sure why the examiner failed me and to this day I still don't know.

If I apply to another agency, I've heard the FBI maintains a file... what will it show? If they said I was not denied a security clearance does that still mean anything negative if I decide to go for one in the future?

Also... on another topic, but still important to the original question. As another possibility in the future. My wife and I have discussed relocating to new zealand. One of the requirements for residency is a police check requring an FBI background check. One of the jobs I was looking at required a Security Clearance with the government of NZ in which 5 years as a NZ resident or 15 years as a British/American citizen is required... this was a NZ government financial analyst position. Will this affect me in any way ( lets say it was the result of failing a polygraph ). In other words... who gets to see this file and what will it contain if I was not denied a security clearance... and does anyone know how far this goes internationally.. in the event I apply for a job overseas with a foreign company.

Thanks! Any suggestions on what I can do... or what I should do would be appreciated. I was e-mailed by my recruiter that I can request another attempt... but I already have other things on my plate that, especially after coming here, are more worthwhile. I just hope there is a limit to where this follows me... when I did nothing wrong in the first place.