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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by T.M. Cullen
- Dec 19, 2008, 12:48 AMQuote....it showed i was lying on 4 questions....the horrible part was i was 100% truthful...i re-test beg of jan and am scared!!
That is an illogical statement. If you told the truth, then it DID NOT SHOW YOU WERE LYING! It shows that in this case the machine DID NOT DETECT DECEPTION. When the polygraph operator told you the indicated you were lying, that was not an accurate statement if you had in fact answered truthfully.
TC
Posted by T.M. Cullen
- Dec 19, 2008, 12:43 AMQuoteI heard from one of the LT's that the failure rate of the new hires has dramatically increased since they started using their new poly examiner from this department. They told me everyone has at least failed it once. Oh well.
Well, maybe the rate of untruthness has increased. Ever think about that? The truth is a relevant thing,
Posted by no one but someone
- Dec 18, 2008, 10:00 PMi took my first poly today as well....as showed i was lying on 4 questions....the horrible part was i was 100% truthful...i re-test beg of jan and am scared!!
goodluck to you.
goodluck to you.
Posted by blank
- Dec 18, 2008, 09:56 PMWow. Talk about blowing things out of proportion. As long as they can twist your words, those guys will keep their jobs. It's all about the "failure rate." They probably get a bonus based on their failure rate. I heard from one of the LT's that the failure rate of the new hires has dramatically increased since they started using their new poly examiner from this department. They told me everyone has at least failed it once. Oh well.
Posted by G Scalabr
- Dec 18, 2008, 06:14 AMThis is outstanding advice. You have to be ever so careful if you choose to make a "throwaway" admission (an admission to a lawful behavior that does not involve you admitting deception to the question answered).
A good story from a close friend with regard to the FBI pre-employment polygraph.
After a lengthy post-test interrogation with regard to the drug question, my friend admitted that the day after he had a deviated septum repair (an extremely painful surgery), he may have taken a second Vicodin 5.5 hours after the first one instead of the "every six hours" as indicated on his prescription because the pain was so extreme.
The FBI polygrapher acted unconcerned and asked follow up questions: Was it prescribed to you? Did you give or sell any to third parties (both NO). He left the suite like things were no big deal.
When he got his rejection letter, it stated that he was rejected for withholding relevant information from the polygraph examiner. Additionally, his "results were not within acceptable parameters."
For this reason, we advise never to try to explain a reaction to a relevant question that can remotely be "spun" into a damaging admission.
A good story from a close friend with regard to the FBI pre-employment polygraph.
After a lengthy post-test interrogation with regard to the drug question, my friend admitted that the day after he had a deviated septum repair (an extremely painful surgery), he may have taken a second Vicodin 5.5 hours after the first one instead of the "every six hours" as indicated on his prescription because the pain was so extreme.
The FBI polygrapher acted unconcerned and asked follow up questions: Was it prescribed to you? Did you give or sell any to third parties (both NO). He left the suite like things were no big deal.
When he got his rejection letter, it stated that he was rejected for withholding relevant information from the polygraph examiner. Additionally, his "results were not within acceptable parameters."
For this reason, we advise never to try to explain a reaction to a relevant question that can remotely be "spun" into a damaging admission.
Posted by T.M. Cullen
- Dec 18, 2008, 12:26 AMQuoteHe didn't actually say "self-incriminating," but that's what he was getting at. He literally said, "you've got to give me something or I won't help you pass."
Gee, I thought the machine was suppose to say whether you were telling the truth and you passed. If I were the suspicious type, I'd say they were just trying to elicit information from you and that the machine was basically a "prop".
What they do is use "upside-down" logic. If you react on the chart, they assume it's a LIE (which isn't necessarily the case). They must then get something out of you they can use to justify the reaction, and fail you. Oh, and they will blow whatever you give them way out of proportion to justify a fail. It can be something that falls way short of the behavior tested for by nature of the relevant question.
Example, my boss in the Navy took his polygraph update at the NSA. He kept reacting to the "unauthorized disclosure of classified info" question. They explained that the question meant did he KNOWINGLY, and INTENTIONALLY disclose classified information. Anyway, this went on for days! He finally said something to the effect that he may have had a piece of classified info in his pocket during a smoke break outside of secure spaces.
EUREKA! BINGO! They then latched on to what he said like grim death! Used it to justify a fail. So his security access was put in limbo for several months.
Note, the info he volunteer fell far short of what he was told the original relevant question meant. So there is a valuable lesson to learn there. Listen to what they say the question means. In this case INTENTIONALLY, WILLFULLY, KNOWINGLY disclosing classified info. Actually, disclosure means handing over or otherwise communicating the info to an unauthorized person...etc.
In this case, he had just absentmindedly put a piece of classified info he happened to be working on into his pocket and went out for a smoke break!
Lesson to be learned? If they have a consistent "reaction" they will use ANYTHING to justify the reaction and try to fail you. So understand what the full thrust of the question is, answer just the question AS DEFINED. Do not volunteer anything else of a speculative nature they can then use to fail you, or try to fail you with.
Amen
Posted by blank
- Dec 17, 2008, 09:17 PMHe didn't actually say "self-incriminating," but that's what he was getting at. He literally said, "you've got to give me something or I won't help you pass." Then he said it didn't matter if it matched with my pre-test interview, as long as I told the truth during the poly. I sensed BS.
Posted by T.M. Cullen
- Dec 17, 2008, 01:36 AMQuote.....I couldn't guess, so he told me and still gave me a second chance. He told me to give him something. Some kind of self-incriminating evidence and he'd pass me (which I could not do because I told the truth... on that question). I did tell a small lie on one question and "passed." We set up a new meeting time for the next day.
Did he actually use the word "self-incriminating"?
Boy, that polygraph operator was pretty blunt. Usually they just ask what it is that is bothering you about the question. That they want to help you help yourself by getting everything off your chest...etc. Looks like he had dropped all such pretenses.
Another standard excuse is to blame the operator. For example, "The polygraph is highly accurate! You must have just had a bad examiner!"
TC
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Dec 17, 2008, 01:26 AMblank,
Many others have had polygraph experiences not unlike yours. Each year, polygraphers falsely accuse thousands of honest, law abiding, and well-qualified applicants for law enforcement and intelligence positions of lying about illegal drug use and a variety other crimes. They absolve themselves of responsibility for the harm they cause the innocent by saying that the final call isn't theirs.
Quickfix's flippant reply to you is typical of the mentality of many polygraphers who, unwilling to accept responsibility for the harm that inevitably results when reliance is placed on their unreliable test, choose to blame their victims.
Many others have had polygraph experiences not unlike yours. Each year, polygraphers falsely accuse thousands of honest, law abiding, and well-qualified applicants for law enforcement and intelligence positions of lying about illegal drug use and a variety other crimes. They absolve themselves of responsibility for the harm they cause the innocent by saying that the final call isn't theirs.
Quickfix's flippant reply to you is typical of the mentality of many polygraphers who, unwilling to accept responsibility for the harm that inevitably results when reliance is placed on their unreliable test, choose to blame their victims.
Posted by DStarbuck
- Dec 16, 2008, 11:45 PMits all bs, i am now convinced! after answering the questions on my poly honestly i still showed "responses" on a question also. quickfix is probably your examiner so dont sweat him. hehe
Posted by blank
- Dec 15, 2008, 08:31 PMOh, I'm sorry. I thought this was a message board for people that took polygraph exams and wanted to share their experience. Sure my experience sucked and I'm a little jaded, but I failed and that's that. What don't you stop reading these posts if all you have to say is "stop whining, you failed" and leave us "whiners" to whine.
Posted by quickfix
- Dec 15, 2008, 06:02 PMAre you finished whining? My hand fell asleep; I was "rushed" into the room; the questions "started flying"; my head's falling to the side; I almost fell asleep. If you don't like the process, don't take the exam. You failed. Move on.
Posted by blank
- Dec 14, 2008, 11:45 PMI thought examiners were supposed to put you in a "calm" environment to reduce the stress on your body to get a more "accurate" reading. Bull$#!+. I was told to close my eyes in front of a man I didn't know or trust, while he sat 2 feet away and told me he was watching me, not the computer. My hand fell asleep because of the blood pressure cuff and the tubes around my chest tickled. I took the poly twice, in two consecutive days.
Day one. According to the examiner, I almost passed. He made me guess which question I failed and if I could guess which one, he'd give me a second chance. I couldn't guess, so he told me and still gave me a second chance. He told me to give him something. Some kind of self-incriminating evidence and he'd pass me (which I could not do because I told the truth... on that question). I did tell a small lie on one question and "passed." We set up a new meeting time for the next day.
Day two. I show up early and get rushed straight into the testing room. Once again, I'm hooked up to the machine and the questions start flying. This time all questions revolve around lying (which I passed all said questions the day before) and drug usage (the question I "failed"). I find my head falling to the side during the questioning. I literally almost fell asleep during the questions. With my eyes closed, the room at just the right temperature and the monotone voice of the examiner, not to mention the early hour of the morning, I started to nod off. I realized that my dream job was being taken from me by this guy. I could tell right off the bat he already decided what was going to happen. After the test, he told me I "failed the entire test miserably."
How could I fail the whole thing miserably? Couldn't that have meant I passed the entire test? What a terrible experience. At the end he told me that he didn't have the final say in whether or not I got the job, that it was up to the department. It states on the conditional offer that all candidates must successfully pass the poly. What a dick.
Day one. According to the examiner, I almost passed. He made me guess which question I failed and if I could guess which one, he'd give me a second chance. I couldn't guess, so he told me and still gave me a second chance. He told me to give him something. Some kind of self-incriminating evidence and he'd pass me (which I could not do because I told the truth... on that question). I did tell a small lie on one question and "passed." We set up a new meeting time for the next day.
Day two. I show up early and get rushed straight into the testing room. Once again, I'm hooked up to the machine and the questions start flying. This time all questions revolve around lying (which I passed all said questions the day before) and drug usage (the question I "failed"). I find my head falling to the side during the questioning. I literally almost fell asleep during the questions. With my eyes closed, the room at just the right temperature and the monotone voice of the examiner, not to mention the early hour of the morning, I started to nod off. I realized that my dream job was being taken from me by this guy. I could tell right off the bat he already decided what was going to happen. After the test, he told me I "failed the entire test miserably."
How could I fail the whole thing miserably? Couldn't that have meant I passed the entire test? What a terrible experience. At the end he told me that he didn't have the final say in whether or not I got the job, that it was up to the department. It states on the conditional offer that all candidates must successfully pass the poly. What a dick.