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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by I-SMELL-BS
- Jul 30, 2004, 03:11 PMQuote from: George W. Maschke on Jul 30, 2004, 09:04 AM
ISBS,
I recall that in another message thread, you called me a liar. But when I challenged you to back up your claim by pointing out what lie(s) I have supposedly told, you couldn't cite even one.
Don't like the word liar... well George how about some of these...cheat, con artist, con man, deceiver, deluder, dissimulator, equivocator, fabler, fabricator, fabulist, false witness, falsifier, fibber, jive turkey, maligner, misleader, perjurer, phony, prevaricator, promoter, storyteller, trickster. They all describe you George and you know it.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jul 30, 2004, 09:04 AMQuote from: I-SMELL-BS on Jul 29, 2004, 11:21 PM...George and his loser buddies specialize in fiction - especially the part about them being "falsely" accused of lying.
ISBS,
I recall that in another message thread, you called me a liar. But when I challenged you to back up your claim by pointing out what lie(s) I have supposedly told, you couldn't cite even one.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jul 30, 2004, 05:01 AMQuote from: Jason Bourne on Jul 29, 2004, 10:52 PMI took the first poly in mid July of '03 and failed. I took it again in July '04 and passed!!! I am in the process of moving. Thanks for all the info on the board but I have found it to be fictional as it was very straight forward. They just try to intimidate you. Its a shot in the dark. Never the less one of my dreams finally coming true. Good luck to all.
Congratulations on passing the polygraph, and best wishes in your new career. But specifically what information on this board do you believe to be "fictional?"
Could you also explain in what sense your polygraph examinations were "very straight forward?" This seems inconsistent with your remark that "[t]hey just try to intimidate you. Its a shot in the dark."
Posted by I-SMELL-BS
- Jul 29, 2004, 11:21 PMQuote from: Jason Bourne on Jul 29, 2004, 10:52 PMThe info on this site...I have found it to be fictional.
You got that right Jason. George and his loser buddies specialize in fiction - especially the part about them being "falsely" accused of lying.
Posted by Jason Bourne
- Jul 29, 2004, 10:52 PMI took the first poly in mid July of '03 and failed. I took it again in July '04 and passed!!! I am in the process of moving. Thanks for all the info on the board but I have found it to be fictional as it was very straight forward. They just try to intimidate you. Its a shot in the dark. Never the less one of my dreams finally coming true. Good luck to all. 
Posted by upcomingtest
- Feb 14, 2003, 07:40 PMhey everyone... this is a great site and its good to know there are others out there... in about a week i'm aiming to fool the foolers and need some help... specifically... what questions should i anticipate being asked by the cia during the poly test? what procedures, tactics, info should i be aware of? any additional info would be great... help me be a step ahead... thanks
Posted by BigJohn
- Jan 30, 2003, 10:21 PMI took a military CI polygraph at NSA in 1992, standard CQT with standard poly machine. Got yelled at for answering truthfully to one of the control questions "have you ever lied to an authority figure?".
Me?
Ever lie to an authority figure?? 
HELL YES...I don't know a SINGLE individual who never lied to their parents at least once.
But of course when I told my examiner this (later turns out he was enlisted military wearing a suit) he got all upset and convinced me to do what he wanted (lie) because that was a control question.
So of course I show 'deception' on that question and he goes back over it for about two hours. First he's yelling at me for breathing to deep (I take a deep breath about every fifth breath or so), then breathing too shallow, then for controlling my breathing (I wanted to slap the stupid git).
I passed...because I did what they wanted, I lied to a control question and got caught...and left the place feeling like I'd just been accused of murdering someone (lasted for at least a week).
Funny thing is, my recruiter had me lie about my pot use on my security questionnaire, but the poly never included any questions about drug use.
Me?
Ever lie to an authority figure?? HELL YES...I don't know a SINGLE individual who never lied to their parents at least once.But of course when I told my examiner this (later turns out he was enlisted military wearing a suit) he got all upset and convinced me to do what he wanted (lie) because that was a control question.
So of course I show 'deception' on that question and he goes back over it for about two hours. First he's yelling at me for breathing to deep (I take a deep breath about every fifth breath or so), then breathing too shallow, then for controlling my breathing (I wanted to slap the stupid git).
I passed...because I did what they wanted, I lied to a control question and got caught...and left the place feeling like I'd just been accused of murdering someone (lasted for at least a week).
Funny thing is, my recruiter had me lie about my pot use on my security questionnaire, but the poly never included any questions about drug use.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Sep 30, 2002, 05:53 PMDupedbyCIA,
Your Kafkaesque experience has been shared by many others, too. See, for example, the Public Staments page on this website. If, at the appropriate time, you'd like to add a statement of your own, please contact us by e-mail to info@antipolygraph.org. By working together, and publicly exposing ongoing abuses, such at that which you are now suffering, we can hasten the day when polygraph screening is finally abolished.
Your Kafkaesque experience has been shared by many others, too. See, for example, the Public Staments page on this website. If, at the appropriate time, you'd like to add a statement of your own, please contact us by e-mail to info@antipolygraph.org. By working together, and publicly exposing ongoing abuses, such at that which you are now suffering, we can hasten the day when polygraph screening is finally abolished.
Posted by DupedbyCIA
- Sep 30, 2002, 05:00 AM >>How does the appeal process worked? If the CIA denied the
>> FOIA, can you appeal without the polygraph results? Did
>> anyone ever passed an appeal the last 40 years
Sorry about the delay in responding. People do appeal successfully, but the rate is EXTREMELY low. Either the CIA is perfect (which is a perfectly natural assumption ... NOT!) or they just don't like to admit their mistakes. The process moves extremely slow, regardless. I started the process six months ago and I have yet to hear anything further.
Has anyone read Kafka's Trial? Somehow it seems relevant .....
>> FOIA, can you appeal without the polygraph results? Did
>> anyone ever passed an appeal the last 40 years
Sorry about the delay in responding. People do appeal successfully, but the rate is EXTREMELY low. Either the CIA is perfect (which is a perfectly natural assumption ... NOT!) or they just don't like to admit their mistakes. The process moves extremely slow, regardless. I started the process six months ago and I have yet to hear anything further.
Has anyone read Kafka's Trial? Somehow it seems relevant .....
Posted by Skeptic
- Jul 05, 2002, 04:13 PMQuote from: ann nounomous on Jul 05, 2002, 05:45 AM
BTW, the format they used was the RCT (relavant control test). There were four relevant CI test questions. IOW, the relevant questions WERE THE CONTROL QUESTIONS. They are looking to see if you react to any ONE of the questions, MORE than the others.
Ann,
So, basically, all questions were "fishing" control-type questions? Do you recall what the specific questions were? I'm afraid I've never heard of a "RCT" format before.
Also, was there any kind of a "stim" test, or were any irrelevant questions asked? Were the questions in groups that were repeated several times? If so, I'd think you actually faced some sort of R/I test.
Skeptic
Posted by Guest
- Jul 05, 2002, 08:43 AMann nounomous-
Was the same format used on both the first and second test? Or was only the second test RCT?
Was the same format used on both the first and second test? Or was only the second test RCT?
Posted by ann nounomous
- Jul 05, 2002, 05:45 AMSomebody asked if I failed my second poly. Yes, of course I failed. What were they going to do, make the first polygrapher look bad. As I said, NSA's security people and the hiring committe had gotten into a major pissing contest over me. They only retested me to satisfy the hiring board.
BTW, the format they used was the RCT (relavant control test). There were four relevant CI test questions. IOW, the relevant questions WERE THE CONTROL QUESTIONS. They are looking to see if you react to any ONE of the questions, MORE than the others.
One thing that is not being discussed about the NSA polygraph process is the importance of the PRE TEST INTERVIEW. This is were they go over your application with a fine tooth comb, especially in the areas of foreign contacts...etc. They are fishing for information they can use against you later on. DON'T be overly talkative, and do not answer open ended questions. Just answer their questions with as few words as possible, and be right to the point. If they ask open ended or vagues questions, make them be more specific.
BTW, the format they used was the RCT (relavant control test). There were four relevant CI test questions. IOW, the relevant questions WERE THE CONTROL QUESTIONS. They are looking to see if you react to any ONE of the questions, MORE than the others.
One thing that is not being discussed about the NSA polygraph process is the importance of the PRE TEST INTERVIEW. This is were they go over your application with a fine tooth comb, especially in the areas of foreign contacts...etc. They are fishing for information they can use against you later on. DON'T be overly talkative, and do not answer open ended questions. Just answer their questions with as few words as possible, and be right to the point. If they ask open ended or vagues questions, make them be more specific.
Posted by PROAc
- Jul 01, 2002, 01:14 AMHow does the appeal process worked? If the CIA denied the FOIA, can you appeal without the polygraph results? Did anyone ever passed an appeal the last 40 years?
<<DupedbyCIA
Re: Cia/Nsa polygraph
« Reply #4 on: 05/25/02 at 10:19:45 »
While I plan on appealing this decision, it is especially difficult to do since polygraph records are exempt in their entirely from the Freedom of Information and the Privacy Act.>>
<<DupedbyCIA
Re: Cia/Nsa polygraph
« Reply #4 on: 05/25/02 at 10:19:45 »
While I plan on appealing this decision, it is especially difficult to do since polygraph records are exempt in their entirely from the Freedom of Information and the Privacy Act.>>
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jun 25, 2002, 09:58 PMQuote from: Skeptic on Jun 25, 2002, 07:07 PM
Do you guys (George et. al) have any reason to believe, based upon correspondence or other evidence, that there is any truth to the notion that polygraphers currently doing screening polygraphs for intelligence agencies can detect correctly-done TLBTLD countermeasures at better than chance levels? In other words, have you received any reliable reports of a means to detect (technologically or otherwise) puckering, etc.?
As of today (25 June 2002), the answer to both questions is, "No."
Posted by beech trees
- Jun 25, 2002, 09:06 PMQuote from: Skeptic on Jun 25, 2002, 07:07 PM
Do you guys (George et. al) have any reason to believe, based upon correspondence or other evidence, that there is any truth to the notion that polygraphers currently doing screening polygraphs for intelligence agencies can detect correctly-done TLBTLD countermeasures at better than chance levels? In other words, have you received any reliable reports of a means to detect (technologically or otherwise) puckering, etc.?
They cannot, because the countermeasures as described in The Lie Behind The Lie Detector are indistinguishable from 'genuine' (non-augmented) responses. I too was a doubting thomas until I experienced my second polygraph interrogation. The polygrapher had the latest and best polygraph equipment-- including sensor pads right under my butt-- and he was quite experienced in the 'profession'. I puckered like Dale Earnhardt in Turn 3 and passed with flying colors.
QuoteI ask because of some of the repeated posts on this board by polygraphers talking about "classified" methodology for CM detection. Surely, such classified methodology would have caught CM users going through screening?
It's all bluff Skeptic.