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Posted by polytek
- Aug 07, 2008, 11:37 AMQuote from: Jessica on Aug 04, 2008, 10:03 PMQuoteI am a database developer/administrator. I create databases and code the interfaces for users to interact with them. I love my job! I have also worked in Information Security (ie, securing and defending computer networks) in a role similar to what I do now.
OMG. With a background like that the world is your oyster. Or at least a clam.
TC
I'll see you at the Barbie convention.
Posted by T.M. Cullen
- Aug 04, 2008, 10:03 PMQuoteI am a database developer/administrator. I create databases and code the interfaces for users to interact with them. I love my job! I have also worked in Information Security (ie, securing and defending computer networks) in a role similar to what I do now.
OMG. With a background like that the world is your oyster. Or at least a clam.
TC
Posted by jessica
- Aug 04, 2008, 09:50 PMI am a database developer/administrator. I create databases and code the interfaces for users to interact with them. I love my job! I have also worked in Information Security (ie, securing and defending computer networks) in a role similar to what I do now.
When I was 8 I saw a television commercial for the Foreign Service. I wrote to them and got a brochure about joining them. I kept that brochure in the box where I kept birthday cards from my grandma and love letters from old boyfriends. During college I would periodically send my resume to the NSA and CIA. I wanted a top-secret job with travel to exciting places, I wanted to learn some languages, and I wanted a job that could make a difference (ok, and maybe crack a safe with my sonic lipstick while attending a black tie event, or whatever is in a day's work). Finally, they called me back! I was so excited. You can see why it was so heartbreaking.
I am getting over it. I just wish I had made the decision not to work there from a position of power. Ugh, your poor wife -- I can't imagine what it's like to go through the poly knowing someone ELSE'S job depends on what happens in that room.
Beijing sounds cool. I bet you will have the best food! Be careful!
J
When I was 8 I saw a television commercial for the Foreign Service. I wrote to them and got a brochure about joining them. I kept that brochure in the box where I kept birthday cards from my grandma and love letters from old boyfriends. During college I would periodically send my resume to the NSA and CIA. I wanted a top-secret job with travel to exciting places, I wanted to learn some languages, and I wanted a job that could make a difference (ok, and maybe crack a safe with my sonic lipstick while attending a black tie event, or whatever is in a day's work). Finally, they called me back! I was so excited. You can see why it was so heartbreaking.
I am getting over it. I just wish I had made the decision not to work there from a position of power. Ugh, your poor wife -- I can't imagine what it's like to go through the poly knowing someone ELSE'S job depends on what happens in that room.
Beijing sounds cool. I bet you will have the best food! Be careful!
J
Posted by T.M. Cullen
- Aug 03, 2008, 11:22 PMQuoteAt the time I was unable to tell anyone because I thought they would think I had lied to the polygrapher or else I would have passed the test.
That is quite understandable as the public at large and the media still cling to the myth of polygraph accuracy despite a report by the nation's top scientists to the contrary. It has become part of the "pop" culture.
QuoteNow I can't tell anyone because I am ashamed at how young and stupid I was to believe them and how I let them bully me into crying like that.
That happens to a lot of people. My foreign national wife (then my cohabitant girl friend) took the test at CIA on my behalf in 1995. I was in grad school in Hawaii and a sub-agency, the FBIS (Foreign Broadcast Information Service), have flown me out to Virginia a few months before for screening. They insisted SHE be tested since she was a FN and living with me.
I got a long distance call from her halfway through her polygraph interrogation crying her eyes out. They had flustered her pretty good. Incidently, she was a 21 year old student from Singapore, and probably as naive and innocent as you. She'd never even had a glass of beer! I told her to immediately terminate the test as it was not worth it. I could kick myself in the ass to this day for putting her through that!
Also, in 2000, I came out to the lounge for a break during my NSA poly at the Friendship Annex. A black girl also applying for a chinese language position was on the couch balling like a baby. One of the PR reps was trying to calm her down. I had gotten to know her a little. Just graduated from Wake Forrest, first person in her family ever to go to college...etc. I don't know if she ever got hired.
But like I said, it is all part of their strategy. Make the girl applicants cry, and make the guy applicants lash out in anger. So DO NOT FEEL BAD! Just warn people about this con.
QuoteAlso, I just don't know how to communicate how awful those hours were. If anyone told me that they had a polygraph and the polygrapher said they were a liar, I'd think so what? Why didn't you just get up and leave? Why did you think this would be like a normal job interview?
They haven't walked in your shoes. This is why you need to share your experience with the people who really know you. That is how myths are dispelled.
QuoteI have an impressive academic background, a degree from a famous university, and a membership in a high-IQ society.
So why work for the government? There is a whole world out there! My wife and I are going to the Olympics in Beijing, FREE OF CHARGE, because of our language skills and foreign contacts. I am no longer worried about what foreigners I met and do business with. Although I am prohibited for life from talking about my work as former military linguist. But I will never need, nor ever want a security clearance from a government agency or contractor. It's like having taken a huge, colon stretching "dump" (naval terminology).
If I worked for the NSA, I'd have to answer to some "14 week wonder" polygrapher every five years during periodic security updates!
In what area is your expertise?
TC
Posted by jessica
- Aug 03, 2008, 08:40 PMAt the time I was unable to tell anyone because I thought they would think I had lied to the polygrapher or else I would have passed the test.
Now I can't tell anyone because I am ashamed at how young and stupid I was to believe them and how I let them bully me into crying like that. I mean, how do you convince someone of all of the drugs you DIDN'T take several years prior? I didn't know what they could do to me. If they really thought I was a heroin dealer or coke mule or whatever (while getting straight A's and living with my parents!), would they toss me in jail? I was very intimidated by the polygrapher. Unless it was in a textbook I was pretty much intimidated by everything.
Also, I just don't know how to communicate how awful those hours were. If anyone told me that they had a polygraph and the polygrapher said they were a liar, I'd think so what? Why didn't you just get up and leave? Why did you think this would be like a normal job interview?
I have an impressive academic background, a degree from a famous university, and a membership in a high-IQ society. I think the naivete could have been educated out of me. Time took care of it. I would not stand for that stuff now.
I guess it is preferable to be able to pass the polygraph than to have a genius IQ?
J
Now I can't tell anyone because I am ashamed at how young and stupid I was to believe them and how I let them bully me into crying like that. I mean, how do you convince someone of all of the drugs you DIDN'T take several years prior? I didn't know what they could do to me. If they really thought I was a heroin dealer or coke mule or whatever (while getting straight A's and living with my parents!), would they toss me in jail? I was very intimidated by the polygrapher. Unless it was in a textbook I was pretty much intimidated by everything.
Also, I just don't know how to communicate how awful those hours were. If anyone told me that they had a polygraph and the polygrapher said they were a liar, I'd think so what? Why didn't you just get up and leave? Why did you think this would be like a normal job interview?
I have an impressive academic background, a degree from a famous university, and a membership in a high-IQ society. I think the naivete could have been educated out of me. Time took care of it. I would not stand for that stuff now.
I guess it is preferable to be able to pass the polygraph than to have a genius IQ?
J
Posted by T.M. Cullen
- Aug 01, 2008, 10:03 PMQuoteI'm sure they did the same thing with everyone in my interview group. I was very upset, sobbing, devastated that I wouldn't have my dream job.
Like any good interrogator, they want you to break down if they think you are withholding.
QuoteI had no choice but to sign the paperwork -- they wouldn't unhook me until I signed. The experience destroyed me for a long time. I wasn't prepared for that kind of manipulation. I was never able to share the details with my parents or my husband (who was my boyfriend at the time).
They can not legally hold you like that. You should have just started unhooking yourself, telling them you are cooperating but don't have to take that shit, and that you are leaving no matter what they say. They were just trying to intimidate you.
During my test they tried the old "post test interrogation". The woman examiner did the following. Let out a disgusted sign, threw down the chart, picked up her chair and put it right in front of me sat down knee to knee and start yelling saying: "WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO STOP LYING TOM! WHAT DO YOU MEAN SOME GUY AT THE TAIWAN EMBASSY JUST WALKED UP TO YOU ASKING YOU TO TRANSLATE A DOCUMENT! DO YOU EXPECT ME TO BELIEVE THAT!!!!"
It's a long story, but I attended a seminar in Taiwan in 1992, while on active duty with the Navy (as a chinese linguist). I had to go to the local Taiwan government office three times. Once to pick up an application, again to turn it in and apply for a visa, and again to pick up the visa. Of course I spoke with them in Chinese. A supervisor there conned me into translating (FOR FREE!!) a 20 page fax that just came in from Taipei promulgating the new law and guildelines for foreigners wanting to work in Taiwan. He needed it xlated into English so it could be passed out to americans coming into the office wanting to work in Taiwan.
I explain all this in detail during the polygraph, but during the post test yelling session she tried to make it out like I was spying for Taiwan or something.
Anyway, after she started yelling at me I, ripped off the chest straps, and told her in some pretty salty language what a crock of shit I thought her little test was.
To my surprise, about six months later, I get a call from the HR people asking if I'd be willing to retest!!
What do you mean you couldn't share the details of your experience with loved ones?
TC
Posted by jessica
- Aug 01, 2008, 09:52 PMIt was the drug issue; I was truthful about my use (which was mild) and they insisted I was not sharing information with them. In retrospect I get that it was part of the interrogation tactics, but I didn't know that at the time. Given my age it was probably the only part of the test where they thought they could get some dirt. I'm sure they did the same thing with everyone in my interview group. I was very upset, sobbing, devastated that I wouldn't have my dream job.
I had no choice but to sign the paperwork -- they wouldn't unhook me until I signed. The experience destroyed me for a long time. I wasn't prepared for that kind of manipulation. I was never able to share the details with my parents or my husband (who was my boyfriend at the time).
Years later I was able to get a TS through another agency as a contractor (no polygraph). I was scared that my experience would make me ineligible, and I felt vindicated when the background check was complete. I have always wondered what the "official record" says about me.
Thank you - I am glad I'm not alone.
J
I had no choice but to sign the paperwork -- they wouldn't unhook me until I signed. The experience destroyed me for a long time. I wasn't prepared for that kind of manipulation. I was never able to share the details with my parents or my husband (who was my boyfriend at the time).
Years later I was able to get a TS through another agency as a contractor (no polygraph). I was scared that my experience would make me ineligible, and I felt vindicated when the background check was complete. I have always wondered what the "official record" says about me.
Thank you - I am glad I'm not alone.
J
Posted by T.M. Cullen
- Aug 01, 2008, 05:08 PMQuoteWhen I signed that paperwork it was just so they would unhook me and let me out of there. Any idea what I signed?
Whatever is was, it was to cover THEIR asses not yours. Probably a form stating that you are VOLUNTARILY terminating the employment process, and that you were not coerced into taking this action, even though you really were.
BTW, I ripped the chest straps off and put a stop to my NSA poly in 2000. So don't feel alone. They didn't have me sign anything and I got a call a few months later wanting to retest me. But that is a different agency.
This underscores the importance of going into this so-called test prepared. If you knew ahead of time that the name of their game is to get you as flustered as possible and to try to get you to say stuff you otherwise would not (i.e. an interrogation), you'd have been better prepared. You'd know that the thing to do is to remain as calm as possible (no matter how nasty they get) and not to admit to anything.
Did you volunteer any information, or did they accuse you of something you didn't do?
TC
Posted by jessica
- Aug 01, 2008, 11:46 AMSeven years ago I took two pre-employment polygraph tests with the CIA. I failed the first and the second was so upsetting that I made the polygrapher stop. When I said I wanted to stop the test the polygrapher and his supervisor had me sign several forms. After that day I didn't get any correspondence from them saying if I would be eligible to reapply later.
I was fresh out of university at the time and so naive. When I signed that paperwork it was just so they would unhook me and let me out of there. Any idea what I signed?
Is it unusual for them not to send any kind of follow-up letter afterwards, to say whether or not I am eligible to reapply? I could never go through that experience again, but I've been curious about this for years.
J
I was fresh out of university at the time and so naive. When I signed that paperwork it was just so they would unhook me and let me out of there. Any idea what I signed?
Is it unusual for them not to send any kind of follow-up letter afterwards, to say whether or not I am eligible to reapply? I could never go through that experience again, but I've been curious about this for years.
J