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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by sackett
- Apr 14, 2008, 12:09 PMNow - Now, Mr Cullen,
are you trying to engage in statement analysis?
My, how the tide of hypocracy churns....
Sackett
are you trying to engage in statement analysis?
My, how the tide of hypocracy churns....
Sackett
Posted by T.M. Cullen
- Apr 12, 2008, 04:20 PMQuotethese boards are a waste of time. Thanks anyway
Okay, Mr. Coffey, see ya. Next time, change your posting pattern to avoid detection!
TC
Posted by Ronald
- Apr 12, 2008, 03:57 PMthese boards are a waste of time. Thanks anyway
Posted by sackett
- Apr 12, 2008, 02:35 PMQuote from: RonStein on Apr 11, 2008, 04:00 PMRonald:
You left out one critical piece of information, that being the fact that you actually didn't commit the crime. Even I, who has not studied statement analysis, could reasonably conclude that by leaving out that piece of information, you likely did commit the crime.
So, did you commit the crime, or not?
"n.p.c.".
wait a minute! Aren't you now doing what I was attacked for just a few short weeks ago? Shame, shame...
Sackett
Posted by Ronald
- Apr 11, 2008, 08:32 PMThanks for the reply. Due to the nature of the crime it's extremely sensitive. I would like to have all defenses at my side, because in a crime like this it's a lot to do with reputation, and as soon as the allegations are made, nobody believes you until you "prove" via a polygraph "test" that you are "innocent."
If I can do it, I'd be silly not to, and if on the stand you suddenly blurt out "But I passed two lie detector tests!" the judge can get pissed off and tell the jury not to consider it, but what is he going to call a mistrial and start everything over? And then the cat is out of the bag, let the jury "disregard" it or not.
So please I'm not here to speak about my case, I'm here to speak about polygraph. That's what this forum is about isn't it?
So I'm going to try again (obviously with a different polygrapher). Any suggestions re physiological countermeasures? No drugs this time, should I forget the tongue-biting since that did almost zero? I'm reacting fairly strongly to the relevant questions, is there a way to decrease that or do I simply have to "max out" the control reactions?
Thx again
If I can do it, I'd be silly not to, and if on the stand you suddenly blurt out "But I passed two lie detector tests!" the judge can get pissed off and tell the jury not to consider it, but what is he going to call a mistrial and start everything over? And then the cat is out of the bag, let the jury "disregard" it or not.
So please I'm not here to speak about my case, I'm here to speak about polygraph. That's what this forum is about isn't it?
So I'm going to try again (obviously with a different polygrapher). Any suggestions re physiological countermeasures? No drugs this time, should I forget the tongue-biting since that did almost zero? I'm reacting fairly strongly to the relevant questions, is there a way to decrease that or do I simply have to "max out" the control reactions?
Thx again
Posted by Twoblock
- Apr 11, 2008, 08:24 PMRonald
I'm neither a doctor or lawyer, but have done a lot of research on the polygraph. It's my opinion that medications is of no help and actually it can be in reverse.
I am with George on this. A polygraph is not admissable in court unless agreed upon by both the prosecution and defense. My advice is to be completely honest with your lawyer and let him defend you the best he can.
The crucial question here is: Is there any hard evidense against you?
If there isn't, a LE poly could sink you anyway so stay away from it. You cannot be forced to take one.
Another question is: How good is your lawyer and how forceful is he?
I'm neither a doctor or lawyer, but have done a lot of research on the polygraph. It's my opinion that medications is of no help and actually it can be in reverse.
I am with George on this. A polygraph is not admissable in court unless agreed upon by both the prosecution and defense. My advice is to be completely honest with your lawyer and let him defend you the best he can.
The crucial question here is: Is there any hard evidense against you?
If there isn't, a LE poly could sink you anyway so stay away from it. You cannot be forced to take one.
Another question is: How good is your lawyer and how forceful is he?
Posted by Ronald
- Apr 11, 2008, 04:02 PMLet's assume for the sake of this argument that I did, in fact, commit the crime.
Or, we could assume for the sake of argument that I didn't, but that I get very alarmed when asked questions pertaining to the crime, that I show enough reaction to the relevant questions that it appears I'm deceiving the tester.
Either way.
Or, we could assume for the sake of argument that I didn't, but that I get very alarmed when asked questions pertaining to the crime, that I show enough reaction to the relevant questions that it appears I'm deceiving the tester.
Either way.
Posted by nopolycop
- Apr 11, 2008, 04:00 PMRonald:
You left out one critical piece of information, that being the fact that you actually didn't commit the crime. Even I, who has not studied statement analysis, could reasonably conclude that by leaving out that piece of information, you likely did commit the crime.
So, did you commit the crime, or not?
You left out one critical piece of information, that being the fact that you actually didn't commit the crime. Even I, who has not studied statement analysis, could reasonably conclude that by leaving out that piece of information, you likely did commit the crime.
So, did you commit the crime, or not?
Posted by Ronald
- Apr 11, 2008, 03:58 PMAre you attacking me because you can't help me?
I'm not admitting to the crime nor denying it. I'm simply asking if moderate tongue biting is NOT enough to simulate a "reaction" to a control question.
And I'm also asking whether a depressant such as valium would skew the results to the extreme that I indicated earlier in the thread.
You're starting to scare me here. I'm looking for some help with regard to polygraph testing, not judgment on my reasons for doing it nor comments on how I should handle my case. :-?
Thanks
I'm not admitting to the crime nor denying it. I'm simply asking if moderate tongue biting is NOT enough to simulate a "reaction" to a control question.
And I'm also asking whether a depressant such as valium would skew the results to the extreme that I indicated earlier in the thread.
You're starting to scare me here. I'm looking for some help with regard to polygraph testing, not judgment on my reasons for doing it nor comments on how I should handle my case. :-?
Thanks
Posted by Marty
- Apr 11, 2008, 03:52 PMQuote from: RonStein on Apr 11, 2008, 03:11 PMI just wanted to take one to see if I could beat it and to be able to show friends and family I didn't do it. This was a private one with results only given to me.
You wanted to "beat" the polygraph so you could tell your friends you were innocent. Sheesh.
Augmenting reactions on control questions in order to increase the likelihood the polygraph says you didn't commit the crime isn't normally considered "beating" the polygraph. Unless you did the crime.
Cop a plea.
Posted by Ronald
- Apr 11, 2008, 03:23 PMJust want to run back through the test for my own sake here. I wrote the number down between 1 and 5, and bit my tongue on that number. He showed me the response at the end and it was clearly there and he said it was "off the charts."
I'm thinking I just didn't do the CM aggressively enough.
If you're having a response to the relevant questions, can you do CM on even the irrelevant questions to make it seem like every single question is making you a little nervous? Seems like you could a slight tongue bite on the irrelevant questions, a large tongue bite on the controls, and nothing on the relevant. Or would that be too much?
Again, to reiterate, on one control I swear I was chomping down hard and when he showed me at the end, all the lines through that question were flat! Couldn't believe it.
I'm thinking I just didn't do the CM aggressively enough.
If you're having a response to the relevant questions, can you do CM on even the irrelevant questions to make it seem like every single question is making you a little nervous? Seems like you could a slight tongue bite on the irrelevant questions, a large tongue bite on the controls, and nothing on the relevant. Or would that be too much?
Again, to reiterate, on one control I swear I was chomping down hard and when he showed me at the end, all the lines through that question were flat! Couldn't believe it.
Posted by Ronald
- Apr 11, 2008, 03:11 PMI appreciate what you have to say. I do have a lawyer working on the case, and have taken no 'official' polygraph. I just wanted to take one to see if I could beat it and to be able to show friends and family I didn't do it. This was a private one with results only given to me.
By "fail" the control questions I mean that I didn't show much of a reaction at all. There I was, biting my tongue fairly hard, not super duper hard, but hard enough I thought, and constricting my breathing as well. But when I saw the chart there was almost no physiological response to the control question.
I'm thinking perhaps the valium I took beforehand didn't help as I thought it would.
Perhaps I should think scary thoughts rather than bite the tongue. The examiner had a seat pad so I didn't attempt to try the anal thing. :-/ But on the plus side he didn't mention anything about countermeasures... maybe I just wasn't using them to the required degree to help me out.
By "fail" the control questions I mean that I didn't show much of a reaction at all. There I was, biting my tongue fairly hard, not super duper hard, but hard enough I thought, and constricting my breathing as well. But when I saw the chart there was almost no physiological response to the control question.
I'm thinking perhaps the valium I took beforehand didn't help as I thought it would.
Perhaps I should think scary thoughts rather than bite the tongue. The examiner had a seat pad so I didn't attempt to try the anal thing. :-/ But on the plus side he didn't mention anything about countermeasures... maybe I just wasn't using them to the required degree to help me out.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Apr 11, 2008, 03:03 PMAntiPolygraph.org's advice for those suspected of a crime is not to submit to polygraph "testing." Even a polygraph examination administered by a "friendly" polygrapher is of little value, as it is unlikely to be admitted as evidence in a court of law.
To answer your question, one can pass a polygraph examination while showing reactions to relevant questions. The key to passing is to show stronger reactions to the control questions. I'm not sure what you mean by having "failed" a control question.
In any event, I think that rather than looking to the polygraph, you should look to a lawyer.
To answer your question, one can pass a polygraph examination while showing reactions to relevant questions. The key to passing is to show stronger reactions to the control questions. I'm not sure what you mean by having "failed" a control question.
In any event, I think that rather than looking to the polygraph, you should look to a lawyer.
Posted by Ronald
- Apr 11, 2008, 02:45 PMBeen under investigation for a crime for the last couple months. So I decided to get my own polygrapher and see what I could do. Took the test this past Wednesday.
He was a very capable guy, been doing this for years. I tried taking a depressant a couple of hours before the test to see if it would dampen my responses. I also tried the countermeasures as listed in the e-book here.
Oddly enough I thought I was biting my tongue rather hard on the control questions, but when all was said and done there was only one of the control questions I "failed." It was one I'd made up an entire story about. The other control questions, even though I was chomping down and attempting to change breathing patterns, just didn't go through. I got a little blip on some of them, but some had no blip at all!
So I got medium sized blips on the relevant questions. Enough that the scoring system said I was deceptive.
Are these medium sized blips on the relevant questions ok as long as I get super high blips on the control questions? I don't know how to make myself calm during the relevant questions, and now my tongue is sore but didn't really do anything for the controls.
I thought it would be much easier than this.
Recommendations?
He was a very capable guy, been doing this for years. I tried taking a depressant a couple of hours before the test to see if it would dampen my responses. I also tried the countermeasures as listed in the e-book here.
Oddly enough I thought I was biting my tongue rather hard on the control questions, but when all was said and done there was only one of the control questions I "failed." It was one I'd made up an entire story about. The other control questions, even though I was chomping down and attempting to change breathing patterns, just didn't go through. I got a little blip on some of them, but some had no blip at all!
So I got medium sized blips on the relevant questions. Enough that the scoring system said I was deceptive.
Are these medium sized blips on the relevant questions ok as long as I get super high blips on the control questions? I don't know how to make myself calm during the relevant questions, and now my tongue is sore but didn't really do anything for the controls.
I thought it would be much easier than this.
Recommendations?