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Posted by George W. Maschke
- Dec 02, 2008, 01:11 AMOff-topic replies have been moved to: this topic.
Posted by George Maschke (Guest)
- Mar 24, 2001, 06:19 PMAsh,
If you speak again with this detective, feel free to refer him to this message board. He is welcome to post a defense of CVSA here. His claim that CVSA is 99.9% accurate is unsupported by peer-reviewed scientific research.
The following excerpt from p. 96 of the 1997 CVSA manual provided to trainees by the "National Institute of Truth Verification," which peddles these devices, may interest you (punctuation and spelling errors in the original):
But your CVSA examiner might not brag that the "NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF TRUTH VERIFICATION" course for which he was selected was only one week long.
By the way, you'll now find an HTML version of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector on the AntiPolygraph.org publications page:
http://antipolygraph.org/pubs.shtml
While we do not discuss CVSA, you may find the description of polygraph procedure in Chapter 3 to be of interest. Both the CVSA and the polygraph are little more than props for an interrogation, and there are similarities between the tactics employed by operators of both devices.
If you speak again with this detective, feel free to refer him to this message board. He is welcome to post a defense of CVSA here. His claim that CVSA is 99.9% accurate is unsupported by peer-reviewed scientific research.
The following excerpt from p. 96 of the 1997 CVSA manual provided to trainees by the "National Institute of Truth Verification," which peddles these devices, may interest you (punctuation and spelling errors in the original):
QuoteCREDENTIALS: Tout your experience as a detective or as a CVSA operator. "I have been conducting CVSA exams for ...years". (Brag!) My department selected me to attend the "NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR TRUTH VERIFICATION"" I have specialized training in sex cases, homicide, child abuse, etc.
CVSA: (Pat or stroke the instrument whenever you mention it.)
(a) This is a foolproof way to begin to FOCUS their attention.
(b) The CVSA is the latest scientific equipment used in law enforcement.
(c) The CVSA is extremely accurate. (If you use percentages less that one hundred the subject may feel that he/she is in the percentage outside of the norm. That is, if you say 97%, he/she may feel they are in the remaining 3%.)
(d) The CVSA is used all over the United States - by local, county, state and federal agencies.
(e) The CVSA is not affected by: drugs, alcohol, age (too young or too old) or the influences normally associated with polygraphs.
(f) The CVSA is housed in a powerful laptop computer with patented software.
But your CVSA examiner might not brag that the "NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF TRUTH VERIFICATION" course for which he was selected was only one week long.
By the way, you'll now find an HTML version of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector on the AntiPolygraph.org publications page:
http://antipolygraph.org/pubs.shtml
While we do not discuss CVSA, you may find the description of polygraph procedure in Chapter 3 to be of interest. Both the CVSA and the polygraph are little more than props for an interrogation, and there are similarities between the tactics employed by operators of both devices.
Posted by ash
- Mar 24, 2001, 04:37 PMThanks for the advice guys. I called and cancelled the test. The detective was extremely upset with me and wanted to know where I got my info wrong and said that none of you knew what you were talking about and never received any of the training that he did. He then told me that he wanted you all to call him. He was pissed! Anyways, thanks for the imput guys. Hopefull he'll back off a little. By the way he said the CVSA is 99.9% accurate, and that he stands 100% behind it, yet he then told me that he knows that he has screwed up using it twice. I almost laughed when he contradicted himself.
Posted by Gino J. Scalabrini (Guest)
- Mar 22, 2001, 06:02 AMAsh,
I agree with Nate and George. By no means should you agree to submit to any polygraph "test."
As George said, even those experienced in the use of polygraph countermeasures should not submit to a "test" when accused of a crime. The police are fully aware that polygraph countermeasures exist. Thus, "passing" will not assure that you will be removed from suspicion. On the other hand, "failing" is sure to leave the police even hotter on your trail. Either way, you are agreeing to sit down with a trained interrogator for a few hours with no attorney present.
Check out the section of the Polygraph FAQ dealing with this issue for more information:
http://www.antipolygraph.org/faq.shtml/#crim
If the police had any hard evidence against you, it is probable that they would have arrested you already. In actuality, they likely have very little, and feel that they need a "home-run" confession to pin anything on you. Call the detective, tell him that you know that the test is not reliable, and inform him that you have changed your mind and now refuse to submit. If the police call you again, get a lawyer.
In any case, I have noted your problem with the download. We are considering the possibility of an HTML version as well when we release the 2nd edition of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, which I anticipate will come early this summer.
Last modification: Gino J. Scalabrini - 03/22/01 at 03:02:04
I agree with Nate and George. By no means should you agree to submit to any polygraph "test."
As George said, even those experienced in the use of polygraph countermeasures should not submit to a "test" when accused of a crime. The police are fully aware that polygraph countermeasures exist. Thus, "passing" will not assure that you will be removed from suspicion. On the other hand, "failing" is sure to leave the police even hotter on your trail. Either way, you are agreeing to sit down with a trained interrogator for a few hours with no attorney present.
Check out the section of the Polygraph FAQ dealing with this issue for more information:
http://www.antipolygraph.org/faq.shtml/#crim
If the police had any hard evidence against you, it is probable that they would have arrested you already. In actuality, they likely have very little, and feel that they need a "home-run" confession to pin anything on you. Call the detective, tell him that you know that the test is not reliable, and inform him that you have changed your mind and now refuse to submit. If the police call you again, get a lawyer.
In any case, I have noted your problem with the download. We are considering the possibility of an HTML version as well when we release the 2nd edition of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, which I anticipate will come early this summer.
Last modification: Gino J. Scalabrini - 03/22/01 at 03:02:04
Posted by George Maschke (Guest)
- Mar 21, 2001, 07:38 PMAsh,
You need to call that detective and cancel your lie detector "test." Whether it is done with a polygraph instrument or a "Computerized Voice Stress Analyzer" makes little difference: both instruments are simply props for an interrogation: an interrogation in which you are usually denied the benefit of having legal counsel present.
By the way, the countermeasures described in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector apply only to polygraph interrogations, which are a requirement for employment with some governmental agencies and private sector jobs exempted by the Employee Polygraph Protection Act. But our recommendation is that no one who is suspected of a crime ever agree to submit to lie detector "testing" under any circumstances.
Call now and cancel that appointment. You have nothing to gain, and everything to lose.
Last modification: George Maschke - 03/21/01 at 16:38:35
You need to call that detective and cancel your lie detector "test." Whether it is done with a polygraph instrument or a "Computerized Voice Stress Analyzer" makes little difference: both instruments are simply props for an interrogation: an interrogation in which you are usually denied the benefit of having legal counsel present.
By the way, the countermeasures described in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector apply only to polygraph interrogations, which are a requirement for employment with some governmental agencies and private sector jobs exempted by the Employee Polygraph Protection Act. But our recommendation is that no one who is suspected of a crime ever agree to submit to lie detector "testing" under any circumstances.
Call now and cancel that appointment. You have nothing to gain, and everything to lose.
Last modification: George Maschke - 03/21/01 at 16:38:35
Posted by Nate (Guest)
- Mar 21, 2001, 07:31 PMYour case is simple... don't agree to take the polygraph because they can't make you and they can't fire you if you don't. If you refuse to take the polygraph and your employer fires you because of it, guess what you become a very rich man. If the Detective is so sure you took the money then let his "beyond a reasonable doubt" evidence tell the story to the DA if he thinks they will even charge you with it. Remember, you have not been charged with a crime yet, the DA does that from the detective's evidence so don't give him any! Let him do his own job. You can use counter-measures all you want but if the detective says you did it to the polygraph examiner it won't matter, the examiner will fail you anyhow. Good Luck.
Posted by Ash
- Mar 21, 2001, 05:46 PMI along with four other co-workers are being questioned in a theft. I have already been interviewed by a detective once, and now he wants me to come back in to take a polygraph test. I believe it is the one that tests the stress in your voice. I have already caught the detective lying to me once., and am concerned that he has a problem with me because I am the only male beig questioned. I don't have a way to download the book you suggest, I only have web tv. Could you tell me when to implement counter measures during control questions. Do I answer truthfully to the control questions while implementing counter measures, or do I tell him what he expects me to lie about ie: Have yu driven under the influence? Do I admit that I have and use a counter measure, or lie and say no and use a counter measure? Thanks for any input.