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Topic summary

Posted by EJohnson
 - Dec 08, 2007, 01:50 PM
QuoteHowever, there is a difference between being honest and being a blabbermouth.  They really don't want to hear all of your dirty laundry.

True, they probably don't want to hear "blabber"---but it is not for the applicant to decide what is relevant. Too often people minimize things that require greater attention for the benefit of potential employers as well as the applicant him or herself.

QuoteI mean really, in order to even pass the test you have to lie.  They have to get you to lie about something and have you feel guilty about it to guage your lie reaction in the first place

This is completely wrong. The control question does not require that the examinee intentionally lie. Period. We do not "get a lie" as a necessary part of the CQT method. Many poly antagonists here with no polygraph procedural expertise will claim otherwise, but they are wrong----and will not likely admit to being wrong. Wrong Wrong Wrong.

QuoteMy point is, going into the test planning to be completely honest may not be the best strategy.

Your anecdotal experience aside----and by the way, whether your portrayal of your examiners is precise or a mere hyper-feminine perception, your story sounds terrible. Assuming your experience happened as you told it, your examiners need to find work elsewhere----unless of course your potential job candidacy involved very hard core, very calloused skillset---in which case the process is what it is called "The Distress Interview"----a staged, and highly stressful interview specifically meant to test your negative emotional threshold. Such Distress Interviews (formerly mis-labeled as "stress interviews") are typical for astronauts, deep cover intel agents, secret service agents, and even some polygraph examiner jobs for intel (yep) and others.

QuoteFor the most part LEOs are not very forthcoming with personal nformation and that is the most appropirate demeaner to have.  Just don't lie about the important stuff.

I wont touch that one. :-/

Posted by stoppolyabusenow
 - Dec 08, 2007, 10:18 AM
     This is an interesting thread.  I agree that law enforcement and government people need to be honest and truthful.  However, there is a difference between being honest and being a blabbermouth.  They really don't want to hear all of your dirty laundry.  I mean really, in order to even pass the test you have to lie.  They have to get you to lie about something and have you feel guilty about it to guage your lie reaction in the first place.  As long as it's not anything serious or problematic that's not what they're looking for.  In my 17 years of law enforcement experience, I have had to lie to do my job many times.  In fact you have to be good at lying.  I did some undercover work and that's all about being a good liar.  
    There are many investigative circumstances that require law
enforcement personnel to lie.  You just can't lie in court or in a way that will violate federal/state law.  You can't lie about your casework etc. and have to be willing to tell the truth even when it's going to hurt you.  They same is true for other positions of trust.  
    My point is, going into the test planning to be completely honest may not be the best strategy.  I know I may not seem like the best person to get advice on how to pass, since I failed my last three polygraphs.  I did pass the pre-employment polygraph and a CI polygraph though, so I know a little about it.  In the pre-employment screening they do want to see if you can keep your mouth shut about stuff that is just embarrasing and doesn't matter and project the image of a LEO.  For the most part LEOs are not very forthcoming with personal nformation and that is the most appropirate demeaner to have.  Just don't lie about the important stuff.
 
Posted by Barry_C
 - Dec 05, 2007, 12:16 PM
QuoteWhat is a good way tp practice not being nervous about questions you know you have to lie on.

Even the people that say they don't like polygraph in pre-employment contexts say that's not likely possible.  Try this.  Empty your mind for the next 30 seconds, and whatever you do, don't think about your mother - her name, looks, sound of her voice, anything.  The harder you try not to do it, the more you do it.

The harder you try to discount those questions, the more signal value they will have, which means a very nice reaction will follow.  All this talk of fear being necessary, belief in the infallibility of polygraph, etc, is all fine and dandy.  The problem is that it's not true.  If a question has meaning, then you're going to have - at the very least - an orienting response (a reaction you can't control).

The bottom line: just tell the truth.  I've seen more people lose job offers for failing to disclose information that wouldn't have been a speed bump in the road to employment than I have seen people make damning admissions that cost them the jobs all by themselves.  In other words, it's normally not past behaviors that tend to get people in trouble - it's failing to be truthful about them that's the problem.
Posted by nomegusto
 - Dec 05, 2007, 09:42 AM
Oh boy, I find myself in agreement with Sarge. Yikes!!!! :o
LOL

So your telling us the only thing you smoked was marijuana? Ok, why on earth didn't you put that down on your appication packet? Atleast you could of asked your recruiter, or Human Resources.
Chimps eh? ::)
I'm thinking, or recommending you should look somewhere where chimps don't work at, your pleading to us about how your trustworthy got thrown out the window as soon as you admitted to lying. It doesn't matter now if you admit to it during your next test.
The department doesn't have to prove anything your a candidate, not an employee. If they think something is fishy, and you lied... Need I say anymore?
I'm still not for prescreen. But I think the examination honestly weeded out a liar...  ;D
Posted by Sergeant1107
 - Dec 05, 2007, 04:36 AM
Quote from: Sergeant1107 on Dec 05, 2007, 02:31 AMMost of the cops I know lied about much more severe things then I did. Taking steroids, bar fights, sex wth a hooker etc. I lied about smoking pot over ten years ago. I have a very clean backround but was told by my cop friends that if they can't prove it don't admitt it. once you are on the force they all tell each other what they have done but then it is okay because you are part of the family. I am very trustworthy and coud run circles around most of the  steroided cops I know. You can be a raging alcoholic and have no problem becoming an officer.It's a shame when it comes to the guidlines of who they hire. That is why most of the force is uneducated functioning chimps with a chip on thier shoulder.

You cannot establish your own ethical boundaries by seeing what other people get away with.  You ought to know what is right and wrong all on your own; it is irrelevant if someone else gets away with dishonest or unethical behavior.

If all you did was smoke pot ten years ago, depending on the quantity and the duration, it would not be a disqualifier for any department with which I am familiar.

Don't you find it paradoxical that you can write about how trustworthy you are while admitting about lying in order to get something you want?

Finally, if most of "the force" is "uneducated functioning chimps with a chip on their shoulder", why would you want to join them?  If your "cop friends" are uneducated chimps why would you listen to their advice about lying on the polygraph?
Posted by Sergeant1107
 - Dec 05, 2007, 02:12 AM
If you are taking a polygraph for employment as a law enforcement officer you should not be lying about anything.

Police work entails a lot of autonomy and trust, and lying to get what you want is not a trait that suggests you will be behave ethically in the future.

Take responsibility for your past actions and your choices.  If you behavior disqualifies you from this agency, apply elsewhere.  If your behavior was so irresponsible that you cannot get hired anywhere without lying then choose a different career.

You cannot behave unethically in order to get hired and then expect to behave ethically once you are on the job.