Post reply

The message has the following error or errors that must be corrected before continuing:
Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.
Attachments: (Clear attachments)
Restrictions: 4 per post (4 remaining), maximum total size 192 KB, maximum individual size 64.00 MB
Uncheck the attachments you no longer want attached
Click or drag files here to attach them.
(Clear attachments)
Other options
Verification:
Please leave this box empty:
Type the letters shown in the picture
Listen to the letters / Request another image

Type the letters shown in the picture:
Type the third word in this sentence: 'The quick brown fox jumps.' (answer in lowercase):
Shortcuts: ALT+S post or ALT+P preview

Topic summary

Posted by JunkMan
 - Jul 25, 2007, 12:25 PM
Quote from: Sergeant1107 on Jul 25, 2007, 12:17 AM
Quote from: ABCDEFG123445 on Jul 24, 2007, 01:04 PMOn the contrary, Im doing it to help.  
Ah, I see.  You are lying in order to "help" people.

"You feel it is more important to lie so you can get the job and then you can be truthful and "help people."  That simply isn't the way it works."


Maybe this advise ought to be given to politicians... Seems it works for some of them... "Getting the job I mean"  8-) :-/
Posted by Sergeant1107
 - Jul 25, 2007, 12:17 AM
Quote from: ABCDEFG123445 on Jul 24, 2007, 01:04 PMOn the contrary, Im doing it to help.  
Ah, I see.  You are lying in order to "help" people.

What other unethical things are you willing to do in order to "help" people?  What other obviously unethical actions are you comfortable with as long as you think they don't really matter?

It is clear to me that you just don't get it.  Everyone makes mistakes, including police officers.  Police officers rarely get serious heat for making mistakes.  They get seriously jammed up, terminated, or indicted for lying.  You are starting off your career by lying, and you are apparently comfortable with it.  You don't see it as an ethical problem.  It is.

The problem is not that you smoked pot.  It is that you don't believe it is important to be truthful on your police application.  You feel it is more important to lie so you can get the job and then you can be truthful and "help people."  That simply isn't the way it works.

Posted by Marty
 - Jul 24, 2007, 03:57 PM
Quote from: ABCDEFG123445 on Jul 24, 2007, 01:04 PM....The answer to all of those questions is no. I'm doing it to help people. I don't feel its unethical when I know im doing it with good intentions.
I don't see having smoked dope on a regular but infrequent basis for years as much of an issue. In and of itself. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if you were applying for a typical job. However, that is simply not the issue here. Your clear lack of judgement and dubious ethics is.

Your own statements make a prima facie case that you are unqualified.

Since the entire period of smoking dope occurred while you knew your heart's desire was to be in LE and that that would disqualify you, if discovered, you simply had to believe it would not be discovered and hence you could lie about it without penalty. In LE work sometimes one is confronted with difficult decisions such as "enhancing evidence" when dealing with someone we deeply feel is guilty but where the extant evidence is ambiguous. This is, in a sense, selfless, and while illegal and wrong, it is still tempting to do. You have already demonstrated a willingness to lie for your own benefit. It's not a big stretch to presume you would be willing to lie to put away a bad guy.
Posted by ABCDEFG123445
 - Jul 24, 2007, 01:04 PM
Alright Sergeant, lets look at my motives for lying about my past:

Is it to acquire vast amounts of cash in the form $30,000 a year?

Is it so I can have the opportunity to work with the sort of clientele  that just love police officers?

Is it because I love putting my life on the line while being underpaid and underappreciated?

The answer to all of those questions is no. I'm doing it to help people. I don't feel its unethical when I know im doing it with good intentions. I'm not trying to hurt anyone, nor will I. On the contrary, Im doing it to help. The fact that I lied about one thing in my past does not make me a "dirty cop." I realize that you feel otherwise, and have decided to render judgement on someone that you know only one thing about. It really doesnt matter to me what you think. I respect what you do, but not how you feel about this.
Posted by Sergeant1107
 - Jul 23, 2007, 11:38 PM
Quote from: ABCDEFG123445 on Jul 23, 2007, 04:15 PM I am not, however, going to intentionally disqualify myself from the process by providing the actual numbers of times I've engaged in the behavior.
The preceding statement shows your intent to lie about your past.  That is simply not ethical behavior.

Quote from: ABCDEFG123445 on Jul 23, 2007, 04:15 PMThey must assume that if an applicant smoked pot in high school and toward the beginning of college, they'd be some kind of "dirty" cop and engage in all kinds of immoral behavior.
I don't assume you would be a dirty cop because you smoked pot.  I know you would be a dirty cop because you feel it is alright to lie about your past in order to obtain a job in law enforcement.

If you don't understand that police officers hold a position of public trust and, as such, must avoid even the appearance of impropiety, much less outright dishonest and unethical behavior such as you are speaking of, then you really do owe it to society to find another line of work.

Integrity is vital to a police officer, because we are presented with temptation constantly.  Even if no one else ever finds out you lied on your application by failing to disclose illegal behavior, YOU will know.  If that knowledge would not make you uncomfortable then I don't think you have the integrity to be an ethical police officer.  The profession doesn't need any more unethical police officers - the few we already have are a few too many.
Posted by ABCDEFG123445
 - Jul 23, 2007, 04:15 PM
Well first of all, does once every couple weeks constitute habitual? I do (and already have in my background packet) intend to disclose marijuana use.  I am not, however, going to intentionally disqualify myself from the process by providing the actual numbers of times I've engaged in the behavior. I'm not proud of smoking marijuana, but it is too late to undo my usage. The previous posters do not realize that police work is the only thing I have a desire to do. They must assume that if an applicant smoked pot in high school and toward the beginning of college, they'd be some kind of "dirty" cop and engage in all kinds of immoral behavior. This is simply not the case. Believe it, or dont....I'm not really concerned; I know what my intentions are.
Posted by yankeedog
 - Jul 23, 2007, 03:41 PM
Do you intend to fully disclose your prior habitual drug use during the application process, or is it your intention to conceal that information?
Posted by ABCDEFG123445
 - Jul 23, 2007, 01:18 PM
Let me first respond by saying I did not post on this board to receive a lecture about my career choices. I realize the hypocrisy with some of the choices that I've made, but let me reitterate the fact that police work is something that i've always wanted to do, and that I feel I was meant to do. It is something that I will do. So I used to smoke pot. In my eyes (maybe not in the eyes of you perfect angels) that is not that big of a deal. I never stole anything, never hurt anyone, never drove under the influence (of anything), and it never got in the way of my social or academic life. I understand that background investigators would not look to highly upon this....and that is why I am posting on this site. Not to be reprimanded by people who have never met me, and have no idea what my priorities are in life. I owe it to society to find another career??! I want to enter this profession to help society. To help people when they need it the absolute most; when they've tried everything else and they don't know what to do. I am not doing it to bust high school kids who are smoking pot on Friday night. Yes, that may be part of the job, but its not the underlying reason why I want to be a police officer, and it certainly won't be the underlying service that I provide to my community.
Posted by Kalex
 - Jul 23, 2007, 09:44 AM
Your story has touched my heart, re wishing to be a police officer your entire life,
but taking drugs at the same time.

I agree with the Sgt. It it is a pointless endeavour to now try and pass a polygraph
test by employing countermeasures. And indeed you particularly should not.

You owe it to society at large to seek another career.

Having read the Lie behind the lie... I did not find it any more usefull than the anecdotes
one comes across from time to time. It was obviously written by somebody who received
incomplete training, if any at all.

Dont take all this as a personal affront. Think deeply about your past and you will come to
find that law Enforcement is not really where you want to be.

Posted by Sergeant1107
 - Jul 23, 2007, 02:59 AM
Quote from: ABCDEFG123445 on Jul 22, 2007, 09:19 PMToward the end of high school and beginning of college, I experimented with marijuana. Once a week, or even once every other week in the course of about 3 or 4 years doesnt sound so bad, until you come up with an estimated total of about 100-150 times.
That sounds pretty bad to me, and it will sound pretty bad to every single background investigator you may encounter in your efforts to become a police officer.

If you tried marijuana two or three times during your lifetime you have "experimented" with it.  If you used it 100-150 times you are (or were) a drug addict.

If your entire life was geared to becoming a police officer it should have occurred to you that prolonged usage of illegal drugs wasn't going to help you achieve your goal.  

I believe you will be disqualified by all agencies to which you apply.  Since you intend to begin your law enforcement career (which entails a huge amount of public trust) by lying about your past drug usage, I can only hope you are disqualified.  You cannot obtain a position of public trust by lying and then hope to behave ethically once you have that position.

You should tell the truth to you background investigator and on all subsequent applications.  If your past behavior is sufficiently irresponsible to diqualify you from a career in law enforcement, so be it.  You made your decisions and the responsible thing to do is live with the consequences.
Posted by ABCDEFG123445
 - Jul 22, 2007, 09:19 PM
I've decided to add more details than what I included in my last post. Since I was a very small child, i've wanted to enter the field of local law enforcement. Every sport i've played, every job i've worked at, and every college course i've taken have all been geared toward my goal of becoming a police officer. I am now a week away from that goal, with a polygraph looming in my very near future.

Toward the end of high school and beginning of college, I experimented with marijuana. Once a week, or even once every other week in the course of about 3 or 4 years doesnt sound so bad, until you come up with an estimated total of about 100-150 times. In my pre employment p/g questionnaire, i only cited about 20-25 uses. Besides this, I haven't violated any laws and have been a very productive member of my community.

I have several questions concerning the upcoming p/g. When control questions are asked, are the examiners expecting a deceptive answer, since most people have done these things? And if not, why use CM's to hide what you are saying is true? Should the blocking technique and arithmetic procedures be used when lying or telling the truth to control questions, or both? I've read chapters 3 and 4 in TLBTLD, but am still confused about this

Thanks for any help you can give.........