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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by ecchasta
- Jan 03, 2007, 01:01 AMIt pains me to observe these discussions of "countermeasures" and "lie detection". You all shouldn't take your eyes of the brass ring.
The brass ring is that there is no such thing as a lie detector. There also are no such things as countermeasures to lie detectors because there are no measures to counter!
Polygrapgh is simply an interrogation tool similar to shining a light into the suspects eyes, or claiming that their accomplice has already confessed in order to extract a confession.
The brass ring is that there is no such thing as a lie detector. There also are no such things as countermeasures to lie detectors because there are no measures to counter!
Polygrapgh is simply an interrogation tool similar to shining a light into the suspects eyes, or claiming that their accomplice has already confessed in order to extract a confession.
Posted by EosJupiter
- Jan 02, 2007, 06:44 AMrandomman,
With your last statements & determination, you will be more than prepared and ready to control your own fate in the polygraph spaces, polygraphers be damned !! Do let us know how you do !! Again much success to you.
Regards ...
With your last statements & determination, you will be more than prepared and ready to control your own fate in the polygraph spaces, polygraphers be damned !! Do let us know how you do !! Again much success to you.
Regards ...
Posted by randomman
- Jan 02, 2007, 04:22 AMI specifically said I don't want to lie and I also stated that I will not discuss my sex life in any way with the agency. Is this unreasonable? If they want me, fine. If not, fine too. What is not acceptable is telling irrelevant and private information to a stranger.
Additionally, guarding my privacy is not an ethical issue and I have no erronious beliefs that the agency is some pinnacle of ethics. I plan on being honest on my forms and backing everything I wrote up with an honest poly session. However, I am going to protect myself against a false positive poly result. With the poly folks staking claim to a 10% false positive rate, I would be a fool to place my future with blind faith in a flawed test.
Additionally, guarding my privacy is not an ethical issue and I have no erronious beliefs that the agency is some pinnacle of ethics. I plan on being honest on my forms and backing everything I wrote up with an honest poly session. However, I am going to protect myself against a false positive poly result. With the poly folks staking claim to a 10% false positive rate, I would be a fool to place my future with blind faith in a flawed test.
Posted by EosJupiter
- Jan 02, 2007, 04:07 AMQuote from: Lienot on Jan 02, 2007, 03:11 AMThen let me change my opinion, use the countermeasures, it's only your future and your dream job, go for the gusto thanks to Eso, I'm sure you'll get there by lying your butt off. Just what we need in the CIA
LieNot,
Funny thing is, I no where in my post told him to lie. I specifically told him to stick to his information on his paperwork, no more, no less. And do please spare me on the morals and rightiousness of the CIA and the intelligence agencies. Its the old cliche', "Intelligence - The worlds 2nd oldest profession, with fewer morals than the 1st". You may be able to BS these young pups, but don't try it on those of us who know better. Old age and experience, beats youth and skill everytime. All is fair in the game of life !!
Regards ...
Posted by Lienot
- Jan 02, 2007, 03:11 AMThen let me change my opinion, use the countermeasures, it's only your future and your dream job, go for the gusto thanks to Eso, I'm sure you'll get there by lying your butt off. Just what we need in the CIA
Posted by EosJupiter
- Jan 02, 2007, 01:54 AMLieNot,
If your so sure that they are detectable why even bother saying anything, or even bother being on this board. It gets to the point that countermeasures are not even needed, because deep down once you know that its a hoax, the flight or fight reaction never even comes into play. Law of diminishing returns, and the more knowlege the better, and if you have detected countermeasures, please by all means post your findings. But then again the Wizard of OZ, hates to come out from behind the curtain. Knowlege and practice is the key to beating you. And this just fries you doesn't it. Because the best part is you have no idea just how many times you have been beaten !!
Regards ...
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randomman,
Beware of polygraphers bearing advice, and we know he will lie to you. Its his job, he is not your friend, and he is not there to help you. Much success in your quest.
Regards ...
If your so sure that they are detectable why even bother saying anything, or even bother being on this board. It gets to the point that countermeasures are not even needed, because deep down once you know that its a hoax, the flight or fight reaction never even comes into play. Law of diminishing returns, and the more knowlege the better, and if you have detected countermeasures, please by all means post your findings. But then again the Wizard of OZ, hates to come out from behind the curtain. Knowlege and practice is the key to beating you. And this just fries you doesn't it. Because the best part is you have no idea just how many times you have been beaten !!
Regards ...
--------------------------------------
randomman,
Beware of polygraphers bearing advice, and we know he will lie to you. Its his job, he is not your friend, and he is not there to help you. Much success in your quest.
Regards ...
Posted by Lienot
- Jan 01, 2007, 03:17 AMI am sure the CIA is not interested in your sex life with your wife or significant other. If you wish to optain that position, I would be honest, honest, honest and disregard the information regarding countermeasures, they will be detected. Good luck in your quest
Posted by randomman
- Dec 30, 2006, 08:45 PMExcellent advice and thank you for the response. I have a significant amount of time until my test and I intend to practice extensively. I am going through this process and I am lucky that I have nothing to lose (so I am not really nervous or anxious) and I am actually looking forward to beating the test. It actually might be a little fun! After consulting with my significant other, I am certain that I will not release any sex related information.
Does anyone have any more info on the format of the test specifically or ways to avoid questions that I do not want to answer?
Thanks.
Does anyone have any more info on the format of the test specifically or ways to avoid questions that I do not want to answer?
Thanks.
Posted by EosJupiter
- Dec 30, 2006, 08:23 PMrandomman,
You made the first steps to having the outcome of the polygraph come out in your favor, by reading TLBLD. They are going to have you sign a form saying that you will not use countermeasures during the polygraph. With practice (and I do mean practice, breathing, relaxing, mental exercises) you will beat the machine. But again its practice until the techniques are 2nd nature. Thats the only way they will not tell you are using any type of countermeasures, but I firmly believe they can't detect them anyways, especially if it looks like your normal body rhythm and routine. In my opinion any type of physical countermeasures stand the chance of being detected. The less moving parts the better. I practice the countermeasures every chance I get, day in day out. Now they are 2nd nature and just part of what I do. The other thing to remember is, that with the knowlege of the polygraph and it formats and procedures. The worst outcome possible is only inconclusive. Once you know that the whole process is a load of manure, you relax and can predict the questions and ploys used by the examiner. Which actually becomes quite humorous as you predict what is happening and what is coming. Especially when they come up with no admissions, then they jump to deception on their part to get something. Stick to your SF86 info and don't deviate. As far as your intimate details and sexual exploits, its none of their dam business. Keep it tight, and practice, practice, practice. And under no circumstances ever admit to having been to this website or having polygraph knowlege, the outcome will not be pretty.
Much success to you.
Regards ...
You made the first steps to having the outcome of the polygraph come out in your favor, by reading TLBLD. They are going to have you sign a form saying that you will not use countermeasures during the polygraph. With practice (and I do mean practice, breathing, relaxing, mental exercises) you will beat the machine. But again its practice until the techniques are 2nd nature. Thats the only way they will not tell you are using any type of countermeasures, but I firmly believe they can't detect them anyways, especially if it looks like your normal body rhythm and routine. In my opinion any type of physical countermeasures stand the chance of being detected. The less moving parts the better. I practice the countermeasures every chance I get, day in day out. Now they are 2nd nature and just part of what I do. The other thing to remember is, that with the knowlege of the polygraph and it formats and procedures. The worst outcome possible is only inconclusive. Once you know that the whole process is a load of manure, you relax and can predict the questions and ploys used by the examiner. Which actually becomes quite humorous as you predict what is happening and what is coming. Especially when they come up with no admissions, then they jump to deception on their part to get something. Stick to your SF86 info and don't deviate. As far as your intimate details and sexual exploits, its none of their dam business. Keep it tight, and practice, practice, practice. And under no circumstances ever admit to having been to this website or having polygraph knowlege, the outcome will not be pretty.
Much success to you.
Regards ...
Posted by randomman
- Dec 30, 2006, 05:31 AMI will be taking a poly for employment with the SeeEyeAye in the future. I have done drugs one time in my life (pot a few years ago), so I'm not too worried there. My concern is that I will be asked questions about sexual topics that I do not want to discuss with a stranger. I don't want to lie, but I also do not want to tell a stranger anything about my sex life. I also want this job...
I know that this agency uses lifestyle questions and can go into sexual topics. Does anyone know the rules of how or when they can ask sexual questions? Is there a limitation or way of avoiding the topic totally? I am no deviant. I'm just private. I read your manual and may chose to use CMs to guard my privacy. One concern I have is the folks doing the poly are professionals and have done maybe hundreds of tests. Will they see typical CM breathing patterns as obvious CMs and just fail me?
Thanks for the input.
By the way...I knew nothing about polygraphs until two days ago, and I must say that this site has opened my eyes. The work you folks do here is great. Thank you.
I know that this agency uses lifestyle questions and can go into sexual topics. Does anyone know the rules of how or when they can ask sexual questions? Is there a limitation or way of avoiding the topic totally? I am no deviant. I'm just private. I read your manual and may chose to use CMs to guard my privacy. One concern I have is the folks doing the poly are professionals and have done maybe hundreds of tests. Will they see typical CM breathing patterns as obvious CMs and just fail me?
Thanks for the input.
By the way...I knew nothing about polygraphs until two days ago, and I must say that this site has opened my eyes. The work you folks do here is great. Thank you.