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Topic summary

Posted by Bill Crider
 - Oct 23, 2006, 12:59 AM
Lienot,

the purpose of the polygrpah is to see if you meet department requirements vis a vis the relevant questions. If you do, in fact, meet those, what you do to produce squiggly lines that verify the truth to the examiner is of no moral consequence to anyone.
Posted by George W. Maschke
 - Oct 22, 2006, 02:24 PM
Quote from: Lienot on Oct 22, 2006, 01:35 PMLying is ethical and wise?  

Be truthful and get the job, lying is not a good start in any career.  

Honesty is a two-way street, buddy. If polygraphers want complete honesty, they should try being honest themselves. Polygraphy is based on lies and trickery and includes the not-so-secret-anymore assumption that even those who pass will have answered the "control" questions less than honestly.

When the fox preaches, guard your geese.
Posted by Lienot
 - Oct 22, 2006, 01:35 PM
Lying is ethical and wise?  

Be truthful and get the job, lying is not a good start in any career.  
Posted by George W. Maschke
 - Oct 22, 2006, 06:13 AM
Quote from: winchester on Oct 21, 2006, 09:06 PMThis poly is actually for another department.

Having been falsely accused of using countermeasures by the first department will certainly not help your prospects with the second department. I think it would be wise to say as little as possible about your first polygraph, and not to mention the countermeasures accusation. You can simply say, for example, that you did not pass the first agency's polygraph, even though you told the truth.

QuoteI am worried that if I read up about CM it will only hurt me when they ask "have you done anything to prepare for the poly"  I will have to explain.

I'm I flawed in my thinking?

No, you will not have to explain anything of the sort to the polygrapher. Provided they are answering the relevant questions truthfully, it is perfectly ethical for applicants for employment to deny having researched polygraphy to their polygraphers, and to use countermeasures to protect themelves against the risk of a false positive outcome.

Remember, no matter how honest you are with your polygrapher, your polygrapher is not going to be completely honest with you, but will instead lie to and otherwise attempt to deceive you about the nature of the polygraph procedure. The "test" has no scientific basis, is instead fundamentally dependent on trickery, and is inherently biased against the truthful.

You saw during your first polygraph how the mere mention that you had some prior knowledge about polygraphy led to a false accusation of countermeasure use. Under the circumstances, it is both ethical and wise not to reveal your knowledge of polygraphy to your second polygrapher.
Posted by winchester
 - Oct 21, 2006, 09:06 PM
Quote from: George W. Maschke on Oct 21, 2006, 07:15 PM

Winchester,

If your first polygrapher were truly confident that you had used countermeasures, you would not have been offered a re-test. The baseless accusation is testimony to the inability of polygraphers to detect countermeasures. Countermeasure "detection" consists largely of guesswork, bluffery, and badgering examinees for admissions. By admitting to some prior knowledge of polygraphy during your first polygraph (which you mentioned in an earlier post), you evidently made your polygrapher nervous.

The first polygraph is likely to color the second one, too. The polygrapher is going to be on his guard against countermeasures, and you're probably at increased risk of being accused of countermeasure use, whether or not you actually choose to employ countermeasures.

The choice to use countermeasures (or not) is one that only you can make. But I recommend that you make an informed choice. If you haven't already done so, see Chapters 3 & 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector for detailed information on polygraph procedure and countermeasures.


Sir,
First off thank you for your advice.  

This poly is actually for another department.

I am worried that if I read up about CM it will only hurt me when they ask "have you done anything to prepare for the poly"  I will have to explain.

I'm I flawed in my thinking?

Posted by George W. Maschke
 - Oct 21, 2006, 07:15 PM
Quote from: winchester on Oct 21, 2006, 06:46 PMI already have been accused of CM's when I wasn't using them.

I think it was because I was nervous, hopefully this time I wont be as nervous.

my question is will this guy will be looking for CM because they thought i used them on the other test?

I really dont think I have anything to hide, but I do not want to fail another test!

Winchester,

If your first polygrapher were truly confident that you had used countermeasures, you would not have been offered a re-test. The baseless accusation is testimony to the inability of polygraphers to detect countermeasures. Countermeasure "detection" consists largely of guesswork, bluffery, and badgering examinees for admissions. By admitting to some prior knowledge of polygraphy during your first polygraph (which you mentioned in an earlier post), you evidently made your polygrapher nervous.

The first polygraph is likely to color the second one, too. The polygrapher is going to be on his guard against countermeasures, and you're probably at increased risk of being accused of countermeasure use, whether or not you actually choose to employ countermeasures.

The choice to use countermeasures (or not) is one that only you can make. But I recommend that you make an informed choice. If you haven't already done so, see Chapters 3 & 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector for detailed information on polygraph procedure and countermeasures.
Posted by winchester
 - Oct 21, 2006, 06:46 PM
I already have been accused of CM's when I wasn't using them.

I think it was because I was nervous, hopefully this time I wont be as nervous.

my question is will this guy will be looking for CM because they thought i used them on the other test?

I really dont think I have anything to hide, but I do not want to fail another test!