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Posted by Thomas_Delacy
- Dec 19, 2006, 09:03 PMbump
Posted by Thomas_Delacy
- Sep 05, 2006, 01:49 PMOnesimus, as i said in my post of having the test administered. The STIM test was never givin; so this could be in result cause i have told him i was givin a polygraph test before. The actual polygraph test was givin to me THREE times in random order. About ten questions.
Same control questions was givin in a different order as well; i just dont remember if it was givin after the same question,.
Same control questions was givin in a different order as well; i just dont remember if it was givin after the same question,.
Posted by Onesimus
- Sep 01, 2006, 10:00 PMQuote from: George W. Maschke on Sep 01, 2006, 03:42 AM
That Thomas Delacy supposed this question on the stim test to be a "control" question indicates that he's very confused about polygraph procedure.
Are we sure Thomas Delacy wrote that message? It's not on his history list and his earlier posts imply that all of the questions he was asked were done three times. A stim test would not be administered three times.
Below is the relevant quote:
Quote from: Thomas_Delacy on Jul 16, 2006, 04:10 AM
key points.. stim wasnt administered and two control questions givin. test administered 3 times.. was told before taking the test
I admit the writing style is similar to Delacy's posts... If in fact Delacy wrote that and the question was asked to him three times, it seems like it was being used as a directed lie question.
Posted by cesium_133
- Sep 01, 2006, 05:44 PMYou're right, George 
Thanks. That's what I get for writing while sleepy |-)
Yes, to those who read this: the number deal, where polyboy writes 1-9 on a piece of paper and has you "lie" about the one you picked, is part of the stim test. This is a trick the polyboy plays to assure you that you can respond to a lie. No matter how your trace comes out to the directed misrepresentation (which it really is), he'll very likely tell you that you peaked highly, that you can't tell a lie without your body betraying you. This is a big screwjob, nothing more, and is part of his bag of tricks.
I agree with George that you might wish to augment your reaction to the number (or card trick, or whatever) stim. Doing so will produce a larger spike, which the polyman may well take as a good lie tracing. If so, then your other responses (lie or truth) will have less amplitude and thus will appear less damning.
I would say that if a variation of the question, as "Did you pick 3 earlier?", (assuming you did), were presented again in the meat of the in-test, -that- would be an irrelevant (on a CQT)...
Nice catch of my slip, George...
Thanks. That's what I get for writing while sleepy |-)Yes, to those who read this: the number deal, where polyboy writes 1-9 on a piece of paper and has you "lie" about the one you picked, is part of the stim test. This is a trick the polyboy plays to assure you that you can respond to a lie. No matter how your trace comes out to the directed misrepresentation (which it really is), he'll very likely tell you that you peaked highly, that you can't tell a lie without your body betraying you. This is a big screwjob, nothing more, and is part of his bag of tricks.
I agree with George that you might wish to augment your reaction to the number (or card trick, or whatever) stim. Doing so will produce a larger spike, which the polyman may well take as a good lie tracing. If so, then your other responses (lie or truth) will have less amplitude and thus will appear less damning.
I would say that if a variation of the question, as "Did you pick 3 earlier?", (assuming you did), were presented again in the meat of the in-test, -that- would be an irrelevant (on a CQT)...
Nice catch of my slip, George...
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Sep 01, 2006, 03:42 AMQuote from: cesium_133 on Aug 31, 2006, 09:49 PMExcerpts from a question to me:
>>Now when i took my poly the first thing i did was lie about a number that wrote on paper when we asked if i wrote that number... I did and used breathing blocking and tounge biting method...<<
You don't CM such a question. That's an irrelevant question, and they don't want or need to see huge spikes on those. The polyboy will just think you're screwing around with him.
Actually, that question is not an irrelevant question. It's part of the so-called stim test, also called an acquaintance test. As noted in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, it may be beneficial to create a reaction when "lying" about the number one actually wrote in order to make the polygrapher believe that one is a good candidate for polygraph "testing" and will show a strong response when lying.
That Thomas Delacy supposed this question on the stim test to be a "control" question indicates that he's very confused about polygraph procedure.
Posted by cesium_133
- Aug 31, 2006, 09:49 PMExcerpts from a question to me:
>>Now when i took my poly the first thing i did was lie about a number that wrote on paper when we asked if i wrote that number... I did and used breathing blocking and tounge biting method...<<
You don't CM such a question. That's an irrelevant question, and they don't want or need to see huge spikes on those. The polyboy will just think you're screwing around with him.
Now the major part of the poly which was right after this was unlike anything that iv read online and the book published on here.. He asked 10 questions 4 different times... There were no control or irrelevant question that i could tell.. All the questions were.
>>"Are you now telling the truth about all the theft questions"
Are you now telling the truth about all the drug questions
Are you now telling the truth about all the criminal questions
Are you now telling the truth about all the alcohol questions<<
This is a pure-relevant test (for lack of a better name), and it is a rare bird. Polyboys and their handlers don't use it much; they don't like it, as they feel that they need some form of "comparison" to determine if a response trace is true or false. Never mind they can't divine the truth, anyhow.
The irrelevant question about the number you wrote was not used for comparison. Even the poly industry has conceded that irrelevants don't raise emotional/BFB levels or have the same psychological gravity as relevants, or even controls.
>>how should i have or could i have used cms more Was the number lieing question the only control question that he compared my answers to?<<
You should never try to raise a response to an RQ. Sometimes on straight R/I tests, there -may- be something to producing a slightly different tracing one out of the three times you're asked a question. However, on most R/I's (99%) and this pure RQ test...
You don't want to do mental CMs. Use behavioral ones... relaxed, at peace in your own mind, positive body language, not ingratiating or defensive. Since polygraphy is an art under the guise of science, influencing the artist can get you a more desirable portrait. He might get a feeling that you're a legit person, which could affect his judgment of his lines and blips...
Again, do not mentally CM on this type of test, and never mentally CM relevants or irrelevants (like # questions). You only CM control questions, the "have you ever lied to your mother" types...
>>Now when i took my poly the first thing i did was lie about a number that wrote on paper when we asked if i wrote that number... I did and used breathing blocking and tounge biting method...<<
You don't CM such a question. That's an irrelevant question, and they don't want or need to see huge spikes on those. The polyboy will just think you're screwing around with him.
Now the major part of the poly which was right after this was unlike anything that iv read online and the book published on here.. He asked 10 questions 4 different times... There were no control or irrelevant question that i could tell.. All the questions were.
>>"Are you now telling the truth about all the theft questions"
Are you now telling the truth about all the drug questions
Are you now telling the truth about all the criminal questions
Are you now telling the truth about all the alcohol questions<<
This is a pure-relevant test (for lack of a better name), and it is a rare bird. Polyboys and their handlers don't use it much; they don't like it, as they feel that they need some form of "comparison" to determine if a response trace is true or false. Never mind they can't divine the truth, anyhow.
The irrelevant question about the number you wrote was not used for comparison. Even the poly industry has conceded that irrelevants don't raise emotional/BFB levels or have the same psychological gravity as relevants, or even controls.
>>how should i have or could i have used cms more Was the number lieing question the only control question that he compared my answers to?<<
You should never try to raise a response to an RQ. Sometimes on straight R/I tests, there -may- be something to producing a slightly different tracing one out of the three times you're asked a question. However, on most R/I's (99%) and this pure RQ test...
You don't want to do mental CMs. Use behavioral ones... relaxed, at peace in your own mind, positive body language, not ingratiating or defensive. Since polygraphy is an art under the guise of science, influencing the artist can get you a more desirable portrait. He might get a feeling that you're a legit person, which could affect his judgment of his lines and blips...
Again, do not mentally CM on this type of test, and never mentally CM relevants or irrelevants (like # questions). You only CM control questions, the "have you ever lied to your mother" types...
Posted by Thomas_Delacy
- Aug 19, 2006, 07:22 PMbump
Posted by underlyingtruth
- Jul 25, 2006, 10:24 PMFrom TLBTLD
This stuff is all in the FREE online book.
QuoteProbable-Lie "Control" Questions
In a probable-lie "Control" Question "Test," the polygrapher will
tell you that you must answer all questions truthfully, but he actually
assumes that you will be deceptive when answering the "control"
questions. He will deceive you about that expectation.
This stuff is all in the FREE online book.
Quote
If you face an upcoming polygraph "test" and need to learn what to
expect as quickly as possible, you may wish to proceed directly to
Chapters 3 and 4 (p. 86 ff.) and come back to Chapters 1, 2 and 5
later.
Posted by yardman43
- Jul 25, 2006, 08:33 PMI know not to show reaction to the
>>RQs so when i show a reaction to the CQS its
>>going to show being deceptive on the control questions. Will the
>>polygrapher ever fail you on the test for being deceptive or showing a
>>reaction to the CQS
>>RQs so when i show a reaction to the CQS its
>>going to show being deceptive on the control questions. Will the
>>polygrapher ever fail you on the test for being deceptive or showing a
>>reaction to the CQS
Posted by underlyingtruth
- Jul 23, 2006, 06:11 PMThe polygrapher will coerce you to answer No to these questions. If you answer yes, he will press you for specifics and then rephrase his question to "other than the things you told me..." until you are "comfortable" answering "No."
You can head off this line of questioning and save yourself some time simply by stating, "well, not about anything serious." The polygrapher will use the response to CQs to determine your truthfulness regarding the RQs.
If the response to the CQ > RQ = Pass
If the response to the CQ < RQ = Fail
If the response to the CQ = RQ = Inconclusive
Therefore, you want to artificially elevate your response to the CQs by employing CMs
You can head off this line of questioning and save yourself some time simply by stating, "well, not about anything serious." The polygrapher will use the response to CQs to determine your truthfulness regarding the RQs.
If the response to the CQ > RQ = Pass
If the response to the CQ < RQ = Fail
If the response to the CQ = RQ = Inconclusive
Therefore, you want to artificially elevate your response to the CQs by employing CMs
Posted by antitest
- Jul 23, 2006, 03:07 PMOk I read the chapters again and I seen that CQ's are questions like.
1 Have you ever lied to a love one?
2 Have you ever cheated in school?
3 Are you completly trustworthly?
Well I know these are CQ's but how should one answer. Do you answer yes to question one since everyone lies from time to time to a loved one about stupid stuff and deploy counter measuers or do you say no and deploy counter measures.
1 Have you ever lied to a love one?
2 Have you ever cheated in school?
3 Are you completly trustworthly?
Well I know these are CQ's but how should one answer. Do you answer yes to question one since everyone lies from time to time to a loved one about stupid stuff and deploy counter measuers or do you say no and deploy counter measures.
Posted by antitest
- Jul 23, 2006, 02:48 PMOk I have read the book a couple times already and I am not sure if I understand it completly. I am having problems understanding the CQ's and RQ's. I am just asking if someone can give me some expamples of these questions. Also if someone can maybe break down the steps to deply counter measures when a CQ comes up. I read about biting the tounge and anal contractions, as well as mental thoughts, and breathing however I am not sure how to use these or when exactly to use them. To me its just a little confusing and I dont want to mess up the polygraph I have to take this up comming week. If someone can break it down to a counter measures for dummies it would help so I can fully understand what is doing on.
From what I understand is that when someone is asked a CQ's your objective is to make the chart raise as much as possable then when your asked RQ's and you have to lie the chart wont raise that high. So when your asked a CQ you need to bite your tounge and use sphinctor tension when you answer these quesitons so when and why do you have to use breathing to help raise the chart as well?
Next if I understand correctly CQ's are used to make you lie right?
Well these are just some questions I have hopefully someone can help me out before my test. Thanks for your help
From what I understand is that when someone is asked a CQ's your objective is to make the chart raise as much as possable then when your asked RQ's and you have to lie the chart wont raise that high. So when your asked a CQ you need to bite your tounge and use sphinctor tension when you answer these quesitons so when and why do you have to use breathing to help raise the chart as well?
Next if I understand correctly CQ's are used to make you lie right?
Well these are just some questions I have hopefully someone can help me out before my test. Thanks for your help
Posted by Mr. Mystery
- Jul 23, 2006, 12:42 PMQuote from: Thomas_Delacy on Jul 18, 2006, 04:23 AMTo avoid confusion to my last phrase /..
If you don't want people to be confused, try writing something coherent.
Posted by Thomas_Delacy
- Jul 18, 2006, 04:23 AMTo avoid confusion to my last phrase /.. best they can think of is.. "goverment's , law offcials,///.. they do not know how to use thier own witt's on a subject rather they depend on a polygraph.
Do you think when someone passes the polygraph show to the public that this person is innocent ... NO!
Vice Versa
when one fails.. you are looked down upon wheter your innocent or not!!!
polygraphs sometimes dont save peopleee they doo more hurtt .
Do you think when someone passes the polygraph show to the public that this person is innocent ... NO!
Vice Versa
when one fails.. you are looked down upon wheter your innocent or not!!!
polygraphs sometimes dont save peopleee they doo more hurtt .
Posted by Thomas_Delacy
- Jul 18, 2006, 04:20 AMnicely writtin, underlying.. you right.. in lamen terms of what you wrote... When a polygrapher sets you up for a control question... ADMIT less as possible so you can build up a stronger lie... Now if you were moral and self decent you will admit to everything you done which could jeopordize the CM usage! CQ's has to be higer than RQ's THATS THE BEST THEY CAN THINKKK OFF!