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Topic summary

Posted by A MOM
 - Feb 15, 2002, 01:46 AM
DEAR FIGHTBACK
YES, PLEASE DO FIGHTBACK AS THERE ARE SO MANY APPLICANTS BEING D.QED DUE TO THE SILLY POLYS...... A FIREND OF MINE WHO IS A DIST. ATTORNEY CLAIMS POLYS ARE NO BETTER THAN TEA LEAVES AND CHICKEN BONES... FIGHT EVERY STEP OF THE WAY TO REGAIN YOUR HONOR AND GOOD NAME....... DO NOT TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER AND GO TO THE TOP TO CONTINUE TO PROOVE THAT YOU ARE AN HONEST AN LAW ABIDING INDIVIDUAL.... DO NOT TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER.......... GOOD LUCK IN ALL THAT YOU DO!!! A MOM WHO HAS SEEN THE SYSTEM MAKE SO MANY APPLICANTS CRY
Posted by FIGHTBACK
 - Feb 14, 2002, 08:54 PM
Hi George,

Thank you for your reply. I intend to take legal action. I will fight back. The polygraph test will otherwise ruin my future and profession. I could have accepted a "no thank you letter" but I can't accept them ruining my name and attacking my integrity and honesty. I'm also immediately asking for a re-take w/ a new tester who has no knowledge of the prior test or its results, so he may formulate a total independent opinion. I was told, however, by the first examiner I had that asking for a retake or appealing from any adverse decision takes nowhere. It's a waste of time. I'll do it anyway so there may be no question concerning exhaustion of administrative remedies or otherwise. Thank you again.
Posted by George W. Maschke
 - Feb 14, 2002, 05:33 PM
Miserable,

As I mentioned to Anonymous in my reply above, you should contest the polygrapher's opinion in writing and request a "re-test." See Chapter 5 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector for further suggestions. You might also wish to contact Mark S. Zaid, who is representing eleven plaintiffs who are suing various federal agencies for precisely the injury that you have suffered. You'll find filings from those cases on the AntiPolygraph.org Polygraph Litigation page.
Posted by Miserable
 - Feb 14, 2002, 05:07 PM
 :'( :'(I read your e-mail and share your sadness. Today, I got f---d too. I haven't stopped crying since this morning. I received the feds' letter dropping me from the application process because they claim I failed the poly. test. The question I failed was whether I ever had or dealt with drugs. Funny, I have NEVER seen, touched or had any drugs in my entire 42 years of age. I don't even know the difference between different drugs, neither do I know what one does with them (i.e, smoke, eat, drink them or whatever). It sucks not only because I didn't get the job (after having passed the written test and other requirements), but also because I didn't get it based on B.S. (not on the merit). It also sucks because I didn't try to fool around with the test or play any tricks (as posted on the internet) to pass the test. I thought I had nothing to hide. I hid nothing. I failed it. It is a loss, but it is also the feds' loss. I am a living proof that polygraphs don't work. I had so much to give to the system. What I ended up with is a permanent record of having failed a feds' poly. which will probably affect my future employment and profession (legal field).
Posted by e1d
 - Feb 11, 2002, 06:20 PM
the way they do it here, you know you pass each phase, so there is never a question. For instance, I took the exam - passed, to the agility test - passed, had record check - passed, had BG check - passed, had in-home interview- passed, had oral board - passed, now I have the CVSA. I was told that this phase is to test so-called truthfulness on your character, things that are virtually impossible to find out without an arrest or written documentation like drug use, stealing, lying, feelings on dfferent scenerios like use of lethal force, driving under the influence. In no way are they checking your BG, if you said 'no' to criminal convictions, and had one, you'd be gone before the poly, they're not gonna waste their time asking you questions when they have record of your lie already.
Posted by sssss5
 - Feb 01, 2002, 12:03 PM
netnin,

Like anonymous, I made absolutely no admissions during the polygraph.  I had met with my BI previously, and I was very upfron t with her.  I told her everything that i even thought might be a problem, so that when I did take the polygraph, it would be with a clear conscience.  Unfortunately, I may have been too honest.  I can't think of any serious crimes that i may have committed, but that's one of the areas where i ahd problems.  Truly, I find that ridiculous - the suggestion that i may have committed a serious crime.  My Investigator had completed my background, and if she didn't find anything, then why should it be assumed that I am a criminal, just b/c that POS computer (piece of Sh!$) asid so?  I mean, rape, murder or arson?  They think I'm now an individual capable of that?  If there's such faith in the polygraph, then I should be removed form my current job, as I am in a position where I'm exposed to classified info on a daily basis.  Hell, I may have even lied on my last credit card application, maybe they should be taken a way also - maybe even my library card?  Where do we draw the lline with this ridiculous test that accuses people who admit their mistakes that thye're hiding something (for the record, I admitted it all of my possible transgressions on my initial applications and SF-86).  

For good or bad, my life is an open book.  I'm not proud of everything that's happened to me, or that I've done in my life, but I owe up to my mistakes, and have never tried to hide anything about myself.  I should be judged on those merits, not the results of a procedure that is unproven (at best).  It's the year 2002, and we're really no better at predicting the weather today than we were 50 years ago.  What makes us so arrogant to think that we can understand human emotion, and the concept of a lie?  If it's as simple as they suggest (polygraphers and the agencies that use them)than shouldn't it be possible for psychiatrists to predict human behavior, and stop psyhotics or depressed individuals from killing their children (the woman in TX who drowned her 5 kids , I am referring to - she had been treated previously by mental health people)?  Obviously, we're not where we think we are, and these polygraph tests should not continue.
Posted by George W. Maschke
 - Jan 30, 2002, 04:23 AM
Quote from: anonymous on Jan 30, 2002, 01:27 AM
who do I contact for a request for a re-take.  Do I call my recruiting agent at the local office or do I send the letter directly to HQ as suggested in the publication "lies behind the lie detector"?

Thanks

You need to write that letter to HQ to document the fact that you have challenged the polygrapher's accusation. You might want to cc your recruiting agent at the local office, too. You might want to call your recruiting agent, too. If you do, then be sure to promptly write a memorandum of the conversation, including the date, time, name and duty position of the person with whom you spoke, and what was said.
Posted by anonymous
 - Jan 30, 2002, 02:43 AM
netnin,

I made no admissions because there wasn't any to make.  The letter said that I failed because "The results of your polygraph examination were not within acceptable parameters." whatever that means.  I am sure sssss5 went thru the same thing also.  

anonymous

Posted by MissionPoly-ban
 - Jan 30, 2002, 02:31 AM
Hey Anonymous and SSS...

Are you guys sure that it was the polygraph test itself that led to your elimination, or is it a possibility that your admissions were grounds for elimination?

I took a test for a Police Department, used countermeasures correctly, got news that I was disqualified after they reviewed the results, only to find out (after requesting the results via the mail)  that I passed the polygraph test, but was disqualified because of my admissions.

Did you admit to any drug use? If so how long ago?  Any admissions related to theft? Anything significant that you admitted to that may have been grounds for elimination based on their standards?

I'm not so sure you were eliminated because you failed the actual test.. it could very well be that your admissions got you canned...like me.

I'd be interested to hear your feedback....

Netnin YAhoo
Posted by anonymous
 - Jan 30, 2002, 01:27 AM
who do I contact for a request for a re-take.  Do I call my recruiting agent at the local office or do I send the letter directly to HQ as suggested in the publication "lies behind the lie detector"?

Thanks
Posted by Anonymous
 - Jan 29, 2002, 06:36 PM
Sorry SSSS5 about your results.  I know your anger and sorrow you've felt when opening that letter.
I agree with u guys on demanding a re-take.  Of course I am not going to turn around and let them screw me like this.  

I was just wondering on the "probablility" of passing.  I am assuming these examiners will try their damnest to fail you to save their colleagues reputation.  

I was told by an insider to write a letter to the SAC requesting a re-take.  I remember reading this somewhere on this site.  I think it was a FBI polygraph policy.  Can I get that link?

anyways, better start typing that letter.  Any templates available to copy out there?  What should I state in this letter?

Thanks
Posted by sssss5
 - Jan 29, 2002, 04:27 PM
anaonymous

i'm with you.  Just got my DQ letter yesterday, and made some phone calls today.  Apparently I faild the poly.  I was completely honest with them - to the point of stressing myself out (I have a naturally "guilty complex," probably from a lack of self confidence).  Tell you what though:  I told no lies, and I'm going to do everything I can to try and get a retest.  Even if they don't hire me, I want a retest.  I'm an honest person, and after seeing everything here (on this website) , I more than ever believe that the polygraph is skewed so that honest people will fail.  I'm not a perfect indiviudal, and I've done some things that might not look so good, but I have nothing to hide.  I told them everything beforehand, and if they're going to DQ me, then do it for those reasons themsleves: don't hide behind the polygraph. Why would I admit to some questionable things, yet not others (if that was the case).  This machine and the pseudo-science it represents is a disgrace in a society such as ours, where we consider ourselves to be so progressive and enlightened.  Apparently the alchemists are still around, except now they're using science to find the truth (suppossedly), rather than trying to  create gold.

My advice to you: appeal it, like I'm doing.  Don't go down without a fight.  They may have smeared me and my reputation (in my own mind) but I'm not going to take it lying down.  I know who I am, and some $1200 computer and a person who knows nothing about me, aren't going to dictate who I am in this world, or how I perceive myself!
Posted by George W. Maschke
 - Jan 29, 2002, 04:13 PM
You should definitely contest the polygrapher's opinion and request a re-test. You should also request all records regarding your polygraph interrogation under the Freedom of Information/Privacy Acts. See Chapter 5 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector for tips on how to proceed. Your silence could be mistaken for tacit acceptance of your polygrapher's accusations.
Posted by anonymous
 - Jan 29, 2002, 01:55 AM


I just received one of the most saddest and depressing news of my life from the feds.....my dq letter... not much to say but where do I go from here?  Do I petition for a second poly or do I just suck it up and take it as a loss.  Should I ask for a re-take or is it pointless?

Thanks for all your previous inputs and replies.  
George, keep up the good work so that future casualties from friendly fire can be minimized.

The only regret that I have is telling the truth and not using countermeasures.