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Posted by polyfool
- Oct 22, 2005, 01:55 AMS,
I don't know why our experiences are so different since we were both offered non-agent positions? The glaring differences are the lack of an appeal interview in your case and the inclusion of one in mine as well as your not receiving a second offer letter when I did. Weird. I would have thought there would be some form of standardization to the application and appeals processes? I know other posters have said they had appeal interviews. I assumed they were standard operating procedure as well as a second offer of employment. Maybe other posters could offer some information as to what their experiences were like--whether they had an appeal interview and if they received a second conditional offer of employmment? Perhaps, there is no standardization, since the FBI doesn't really offer a fair appeals process--just a front for the appearance of a fair appeals process.
I don't know why our experiences are so different since we were both offered non-agent positions? The glaring differences are the lack of an appeal interview in your case and the inclusion of one in mine as well as your not receiving a second offer letter when I did. Weird. I would have thought there would be some form of standardization to the application and appeals processes? I know other posters have said they had appeal interviews. I assumed they were standard operating procedure as well as a second offer of employment. Maybe other posters could offer some information as to what their experiences were like--whether they had an appeal interview and if they received a second conditional offer of employmment? Perhaps, there is no standardization, since the FBI doesn't really offer a fair appeals process--just a front for the appearance of a fair appeals process.
Posted by s
- Oct 22, 2005, 01:05 AMPolyfool,
There was about 5 months between testings. But, a few of those months were because of me. I delayed the letters because I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. Once I wrote them, it went really quickly!
I did not get the second offer of employment. The first time I was given the offer right after my group interview. Then, polygraphed the next day. The second time I was just set up for a poly. You are correct about the first time, the polygrapher had maybe 30 min. MAX to look over my security interview before he administered the poly.
By the way, I was going for a non-agent position too.
They falsely accused me of using drugs and an incomplete application. Even though I have had years of negative employment-related drug testing (I have never done any drug in my life) and a complete federal background for my current position.
There was about 5 months between testings. But, a few of those months were because of me. I delayed the letters because I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. Once I wrote them, it went really quickly!
I did not get the second offer of employment. The first time I was given the offer right after my group interview. Then, polygraphed the next day. The second time I was just set up for a poly. You are correct about the first time, the polygrapher had maybe 30 min. MAX to look over my security interview before he administered the poly.
By the way, I was going for a non-agent position too.
They falsely accused me of using drugs and an incomplete application. Even though I have had years of negative employment-related drug testing (I have never done any drug in my life) and a complete federal background for my current position.
Posted by polyfool
- Oct 22, 2005, 12:02 AMS,
How much time passed between your first and second polys? So, you did not receive a second conditional offer of employment letter before your second test? Were you given a conditional employment letter on the spot after your job interview and then polygraphed the next day? Also, if your security interview was conducted just before your poly, the examiner didn't have time to review the information gleaned during your security interview. Hmm. Interesting. My examiner had more time between the interview and my poly to become acquainted with my information.
My job offer was for a non-agent position and yours was for an agent position, I assume. That would explain the differences in the initial processes. I had a job interview and wasn't subjected to testing as an agent applicant would be. What were you falsely accused of lying about? I was upfront and honest about limited marijuana use as a teen with the agency. A good portion of my appeal interview covered going over every single detail about prior illegal drug use. The agent did ask me how I viewed a question or two, saying that it was important for the polygrapher to know how my mind worked, or something of that nature. Perhaps, you have no history of illegal drug use and therefore, didn't require an interview? Maybe the purpose of the appeal interview is to look for possible inconsistencies, so the agency can get out of offering a second test? Also, the agency may be gathering information during the appeal interview in an effort to find out what's going so wrong with it's precious polygraph procedure? Who knows? I wonder if it makes a difference if the applicant has odd results from the first test? It would be safe to say mine were puzzling. Perhaps, someone else on the board could offer more information on this subject?
How much time passed between your first and second polys? So, you did not receive a second conditional offer of employment letter before your second test? Were you given a conditional employment letter on the spot after your job interview and then polygraphed the next day? Also, if your security interview was conducted just before your poly, the examiner didn't have time to review the information gleaned during your security interview. Hmm. Interesting. My examiner had more time between the interview and my poly to become acquainted with my information.
My job offer was for a non-agent position and yours was for an agent position, I assume. That would explain the differences in the initial processes. I had a job interview and wasn't subjected to testing as an agent applicant would be. What were you falsely accused of lying about? I was upfront and honest about limited marijuana use as a teen with the agency. A good portion of my appeal interview covered going over every single detail about prior illegal drug use. The agent did ask me how I viewed a question or two, saying that it was important for the polygrapher to know how my mind worked, or something of that nature. Perhaps, you have no history of illegal drug use and therefore, didn't require an interview? Maybe the purpose of the appeal interview is to look for possible inconsistencies, so the agency can get out of offering a second test? Also, the agency may be gathering information during the appeal interview in an effort to find out what's going so wrong with it's precious polygraph procedure? Who knows? I wonder if it makes a difference if the applicant has odd results from the first test? It would be safe to say mine were puzzling. Perhaps, someone else on the board could offer more information on this subject?
Posted by s
- Oct 21, 2005, 11:20 PMPolyfool,
It looks like our experiences were different. Here is how mine went: Failed first poly, employment offer rescinded, sent round one of appeal letter and heard nothing, sent round two of appeal letter and got a call from the polygrapher in less than a week to schedule the second poly. Of course, I never did it, I cancelled it via telephone and sent a letter to a bunch of people too. I had no interview scheduled with an agent before the second poly. In fact, he tried to get me to come in the day after he called for the second poly.
The first time: I went in for an interview, passed and was given a conditional offer of employment. Then, I was scheduled the next day for the poly. I went in for the security interview and then right into the poly (where the usual pre-test interview, etc. took place).
I wonder what the difference was?
It looks like our experiences were different. Here is how mine went: Failed first poly, employment offer rescinded, sent round one of appeal letter and heard nothing, sent round two of appeal letter and got a call from the polygrapher in less than a week to schedule the second poly. Of course, I never did it, I cancelled it via telephone and sent a letter to a bunch of people too. I had no interview scheduled with an agent before the second poly. In fact, he tried to get me to come in the day after he called for the second poly.
The first time: I went in for an interview, passed and was given a conditional offer of employment. Then, I was scheduled the next day for the poly. I went in for the security interview and then right into the poly (where the usual pre-test interview, etc. took place).
I wonder what the difference was?
Posted by polyfool
- Oct 21, 2005, 02:27 AMS,
I was interviewed by an agent about six weeks prior to my second poly. Basically, a repeat of some of the same ground covered during the personnel interview-- foreign contacts, prior drug use, foreign travel, etc.
My experience was: Failed first poly. Employment offer rescinded. I sent a letter asking for a retest. The agency contacted me via telephone about six weeks later. The agent told me the agency wanted to interview me before the second polygraph, which would be conducted on a different day. I was interviewed a second time. About a month later, I received another conditonal offer of employment letter and about 1-2 weeks later, I got a call from a polygraph examiner to schedule the second test about two weeks later. I took the 2nd poly and about 2 weeks later, I received a letter stating the results of my 2nd poly were "not within acceptable parameters" and that no further avenues existed for me to gain employment with the FBI.
So, you weren't interviewed before the 2nd poly offer? The interview you are referring to before you went in the room with the polygrapher--was that interview w/ the polygrapher or another agent? Perhaps, you are referring to the personnel security interview? Mine was not conducted the same day as my poly. It was done well in advance of the poly. Or, are you talking about the pre-test interview with the polygrapher? What was your experience like?
I'm under the impression that the appeal interview is standard operating procedure in the FBI before applicants are granted retests. Perhaps, someone else on the board could offer some insight?
I was falsely accused of violating the FBI's guidelines regarding the use and sale of illegal drugs.
I was interviewed by an agent about six weeks prior to my second poly. Basically, a repeat of some of the same ground covered during the personnel interview-- foreign contacts, prior drug use, foreign travel, etc.
My experience was: Failed first poly. Employment offer rescinded. I sent a letter asking for a retest. The agency contacted me via telephone about six weeks later. The agent told me the agency wanted to interview me before the second polygraph, which would be conducted on a different day. I was interviewed a second time. About a month later, I received another conditonal offer of employment letter and about 1-2 weeks later, I got a call from a polygraph examiner to schedule the second test about two weeks later. I took the 2nd poly and about 2 weeks later, I received a letter stating the results of my 2nd poly were "not within acceptable parameters" and that no further avenues existed for me to gain employment with the FBI.
So, you weren't interviewed before the 2nd poly offer? The interview you are referring to before you went in the room with the polygrapher--was that interview w/ the polygrapher or another agent? Perhaps, you are referring to the personnel security interview? Mine was not conducted the same day as my poly. It was done well in advance of the poly. Or, are you talking about the pre-test interview with the polygrapher? What was your experience like?
I'm under the impression that the appeal interview is standard operating procedure in the FBI before applicants are granted retests. Perhaps, someone else on the board could offer some insight?
I was falsely accused of violating the FBI's guidelines regarding the use and sale of illegal drugs.
Posted by s
- Oct 20, 2005, 12:00 AMPolyfool,
I wanted to clarify something. You said "As you know, in order for an applicant to be granted an FBI polygraph retest, he/she must first be interviewed by an agent." I am not sure what you mean. Are you talking about the interview just before you go into the room with the polygrapher, or an interview before you even get the green light to take a retest?
I am curious because I didn't speak to anyone before I got the call to set up the time/date of the retest. Just wondering if they changed their policies.
And, if you don't mind me saying.......keep trying for the federal govt. There is nothing like it. I have had good experiences (until this one) with the feds. Great benefits, lots of variety and even if you change from being say an accountant to being a lawyer, you don't have to "start over". You usually get to keep your grade/pay and move on. So, don't let this horrible experience sour you on the federal govt. as a whole. As you know there are PLENTY of agencies that don't use the polygraph.
By the way, what did they accuse you of doing?
Good luck to you too!
I wanted to clarify something. You said "As you know, in order for an applicant to be granted an FBI polygraph retest, he/she must first be interviewed by an agent." I am not sure what you mean. Are you talking about the interview just before you go into the room with the polygrapher, or an interview before you even get the green light to take a retest?
I am curious because I didn't speak to anyone before I got the call to set up the time/date of the retest. Just wondering if they changed their policies.
And, if you don't mind me saying.......keep trying for the federal govt. There is nothing like it. I have had good experiences (until this one) with the feds. Great benefits, lots of variety and even if you change from being say an accountant to being a lawyer, you don't have to "start over". You usually get to keep your grade/pay and move on. So, don't let this horrible experience sour you on the federal govt. as a whole. As you know there are PLENTY of agencies that don't use the polygraph.
By the way, what did they accuse you of doing?
Good luck to you too!
Posted by polyfool
- Oct 19, 2005, 01:24 AMQuote from: s on Oct 17, 2005, 11:46 PM
So, knowing what you know now would you have taken the second one or would you have skipped it?
S,
This is a tough question to answer. On the one hand, it was a total waste of my time. As you know, in order for an applicant to be granted an FBI polygraph retest, he/she must first be interviewed by an agent. Since I had told the truth, I was counting on being part of the three percent who pass a retest--that according to my applicant coordinator, who told me not to count on a retest because of the slim chances of passing the very same day another agent from the same office called to schedule my appeal interview. Talk about coordination and competence. At that time, I didn't know that virtually no one passes an FBI retest, so I had hoped to clear my name. I now know the agency had no intention of passing me on a retest. That means besides the days I had to take off for the application process, I wasted two additional vacation days for a test I was never going to pass.
On the other hand, I'm glad I went through with the second test for several reasons. The polygraph examiner who conducted by first test was an unethical, abusive a$$hole. Just showing up for a second test after the way I was treated was a real challenge and just doing it took a lot of nerve. I had to know that I had done everything in my power to try and set the record straight and the retest was my only option. I would have always wondered if things would have turned out differently if I hadn't taken it. For me, taking the retest was also a matter of principle. I knew what happened to me was wrong and I just couldn't give up that easily.
In the end, even though I didn't get the outcome I wanted, I know there is nothing that I could have done differently to change the situation and that gives me a great deal of satisfaction. That, and the fact that I didn't make it easy for the agency to get rid of me. As for my polygraph failures affecting future employment, it's still a little too early to tell. For the time being, I have decided to remain in private industry, which could never get away with the things that were done to me during my application process with the federal government.
I would think that since you are already a federal LEO with a clearance and BI, you have a much better chance than most in overcoming your failed FBI polygraph. I strongly suggest that you obtain your FBI file through FOIPA. You may be surprised at what you find out. Good luck to you.
Posted by s
- Oct 17, 2005, 11:46 PMPolyfool,
I did ask for a retest. I was a little more fortunate than others. I found the site before my retest, but not before my first test. I knew that I had to ask for a retest in order to get one. The first round of letters I sent went nowhere. After the second set of letters I got a call in less than a week to schedule my retest.
To inform them I called the polygrapher and just cancelled. I told him I was no longer interested. And, then I took George's advice and sent them a letter to make sure any background investigator gets that too. At least they will get my side of the story at the same time the FBI gives their side. I am going to file under FOIA in a while to make sure the letter is in there and see what they put in my file.
I understand your point about the retest, but I just think that one failure, an offer to retest, and then a voluntary withdrawal of my application might look a bit better then two failures. I feel like the background investigator may at least have a little doubt about the results of the first poly in the absence of a second polygraph supporting the findings of the first. Otherwise, it would just be a second nail in the coffin they are trying to put me in. Who really knows what the answer is. I guess I will find out. It seems I was doomed to fail the retest from what I have read here. Besides, I was completely truthful before, and it got me a failure. I will say that the polygrapher that called me this time seemed less like a robot than the one who gave me the original poly, so who knows what might have happened. But, I think that negatives outweighed the (unlikely, but slightly possible) positives. I hope that these other agencies that will actually go out in the field and get the facts won't pay much attention to this crazy FBI file. Besides, it is easy enough to find out that I was telling the truth about these two things by looking into my history. I was also scared that (as has happened to some others) I might get falsely accused of something else that was couldn't be proved easily and could really screw a person.
So, knowing what you know now would you have taken the second one or would you have skipped it? Are you working for the govt. now? Have there been any repercussions from your failed attempts at passing? Thanks!
I did ask for a retest. I was a little more fortunate than others. I found the site before my retest, but not before my first test. I knew that I had to ask for a retest in order to get one. The first round of letters I sent went nowhere. After the second set of letters I got a call in less than a week to schedule my retest.
To inform them I called the polygrapher and just cancelled. I told him I was no longer interested. And, then I took George's advice and sent them a letter to make sure any background investigator gets that too. At least they will get my side of the story at the same time the FBI gives their side. I am going to file under FOIA in a while to make sure the letter is in there and see what they put in my file.
I understand your point about the retest, but I just think that one failure, an offer to retest, and then a voluntary withdrawal of my application might look a bit better then two failures. I feel like the background investigator may at least have a little doubt about the results of the first poly in the absence of a second polygraph supporting the findings of the first. Otherwise, it would just be a second nail in the coffin they are trying to put me in. Who really knows what the answer is. I guess I will find out. It seems I was doomed to fail the retest from what I have read here. Besides, I was completely truthful before, and it got me a failure. I will say that the polygrapher that called me this time seemed less like a robot than the one who gave me the original poly, so who knows what might have happened. But, I think that negatives outweighed the (unlikely, but slightly possible) positives. I hope that these other agencies that will actually go out in the field and get the facts won't pay much attention to this crazy FBI file. Besides, it is easy enough to find out that I was telling the truth about these two things by looking into my history. I was also scared that (as has happened to some others) I might get falsely accused of something else that was couldn't be proved easily and could really screw a person.
So, knowing what you know now would you have taken the second one or would you have skipped it? Are you working for the govt. now? Have there been any repercussions from your failed attempts at passing? Thanks!
Posted by polyfool
- Oct 16, 2005, 08:00 PMS,
In your appeal letter did you ask for a retest? How did you inform the agency that you wouldn't take a retest? I felt like I didn't have a choice in taking my retest and that it would reflect poorly on me as if I wasn't really telling the truth during my first test. When I appealed my first test, I still didn't know the truth about polygraph screening, so I asked for a second test as instructed by the agency to clear my name. The agency also informed me that lots of people send letters disputing failed results, but most don't ask for a retest. I thought, well makes sense, they probably lied and didn't have the nerve to go back for a second test. Perhaps, they were just better informed than I was as I was still foolishly in the dark at that time. When I received my second conditional employment offer letter, I didn't want the job, either. If I could have just backed out at that point with a clear name, I would have gladly done so, that's all I wanted. However, the only avenue the agency provides to clear one's name is a retest, so being trapped as I was, I felt it was the only option. The way I looked at it was, what would it look like to a future employer who sees the letter in my file letters professing to have told the truth and asking to be given another opportunity to clear my name, only to learn the agency offered me the chance and I turned it down? That doesn't look so hot, but then again neither does two failed polys, which is what I have in my permanent FBI file. Seems there 's no good answer. Once you submit to the FBI's poly and the coin doesn't land on the right side up, there's no way out.
Good luck with your clearance. At least the agency you work for is wise enough not to use polygraphs to screen applicants. I would think that coupled with your background investigation would help your situation when you are up for renewal.
In your appeal letter did you ask for a retest? How did you inform the agency that you wouldn't take a retest? I felt like I didn't have a choice in taking my retest and that it would reflect poorly on me as if I wasn't really telling the truth during my first test. When I appealed my first test, I still didn't know the truth about polygraph screening, so I asked for a second test as instructed by the agency to clear my name. The agency also informed me that lots of people send letters disputing failed results, but most don't ask for a retest. I thought, well makes sense, they probably lied and didn't have the nerve to go back for a second test. Perhaps, they were just better informed than I was as I was still foolishly in the dark at that time. When I received my second conditional employment offer letter, I didn't want the job, either. If I could have just backed out at that point with a clear name, I would have gladly done so, that's all I wanted. However, the only avenue the agency provides to clear one's name is a retest, so being trapped as I was, I felt it was the only option. The way I looked at it was, what would it look like to a future employer who sees the letter in my file letters professing to have told the truth and asking to be given another opportunity to clear my name, only to learn the agency offered me the chance and I turned it down? That doesn't look so hot, but then again neither does two failed polys, which is what I have in my permanent FBI file. Seems there 's no good answer. Once you submit to the FBI's poly and the coin doesn't land on the right side up, there's no way out.
Good luck with your clearance. At least the agency you work for is wise enough not to use polygraphs to screen applicants. I would think that coupled with your background investigation would help your situation when you are up for renewal.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Oct 15, 2005, 04:44 AMQuote from: s on Oct 14, 2005, 10:09 PM...what would you have told them in order to let them know you were no longer interested?
I would have told them that I had read up on the polygraph, realized how utterly unreliable polygraph screening is, and that I no longer had any interest in working with any organization whose leadership would presume to judge my honesty and integrity on the basis of such pseudoscientific nonsense.
Presumably, you verbally informed the FBI that you were not interested in a second polygraph séance. You may wish to follow up with a certified, return-receipt letter explaining your reasons. Your letter should be added to your FBI HQ file, which is a permanent record, and will ensure that any security clearance adjudicator reviewing your file in the future will see your reasons for declining the "re-test."
QuoteAnd, if you were in my shoes (sans the countermeasure knowledge you have that I don't) what would you have done?
I probably would have declined the "re-test," too.
QuoteSince the retake part of it is in the past now, I would like to focus on another part of the issue. How should I respond to my current employer when they find out the results of the polygraph? My agency did away with the polygraph years and years ago because it was so unreliable. But, I don't know how they would react to this. Especially, since they have already looked deep into my background (including the completeness of my application and drug usage). Not to mention I have been drug tested at various employers since I was a teenager (all negative). And, for months on end they looked into my background and found nothing derogatory.
If it becomes an issue, you can contact Dr. Richardson for a signed copy of his "Opinion and Evaluation of CQT Polygraphy" and also refer your boss to the information available here. FBI polygraphers are accusing some 50% of applicants of deception based on a procedure that the National Academy of Sciences found to be completely invalid. You should not be placed in the position of having to explain why an invalid test produced inaccurate results.
QuoteLastly, you mentioned that if I went with the "complete truthfulness" approach I should hope that the FBI polygraph unit would not retaliate against me. What type of retaliation are you talking about, and have you heard of something like this happening before? What was the outcome?
The type of retaliation I had in mind is an arbitrary accusation of deception and/or countermeasure use. This has happened to people who have admitted to knowing about polygraph procedure and countermeasures.
QuoteThanks for answering this new barrage of questions! And, I am sorry that this one is so disjointed . . . I have a lot on my mind now.
Thank you for sharing your experience through your questions, and I hope you'll also share what you've learned about polygraphy with your colleagues. The public, and in particular those who may themselves someday face polygraph screening, need to be informed about this voodoo science. See our Get Involved page for some ideas on how you can help.
Posted by s
- Oct 14, 2005, 10:09 PMGeorge,
Thanks so much for your response. As you may have guessed the time for my retest has come and gone. I decided not to do it. Before I tell you what I did, what would you have told them in order to let them know you were no longer interested? And, if you were in my shoes (sans the countermeasure knowledge you have that I don't) what would you have done? I feel like I should NOT have to use the countermeasures to prove myself after the good and honest way I have lived my life. On the other hand, I already tried the route of being completely honest and was falsely accused of deception. I didn't really want to work for the FBI anymore even if I passed after the way I was treated. It was not based on facts or reality, but rather a faulty machine.
I think you are correct, that 2 fails would look worse to a poly-ignorant background investigator. The possible additional consequences seemed to far outweigh the possible benefits, especially since I didn't want to work for them anymore. But, being accused of lying again about the same things or even more serious things would be worse! I just can't express to you what a slap in the face all this is after living my life the way I have. It really pisses me off, how dare they make decisions about what type of person I am based on a machine. If they laid down some shoe leather, they would see what they are really missing out on.
Since the retake part of it is in the past now, I would like to focus on another part of the issue. How should I respond to my current employer when they find out the results of the polygraph? My agency did away with the polygraph years and years ago because it was so unreliable. But, I don't know how they would react to this. Especially, since they have already looked deep into my background (including the completeness of my application and drug usage). Not to mention I have been drug tested at various employers since I was a teenager (all negative). And, for months on end they looked into my background and found nothing derogatory.
Lastly, you mentioned that if I went with the "complete truthfulness" approach I should hope that the FBI polygraph unit would not retaliate against me. What type of retaliation are you talking about, and have you heard of something like this happening before? What was the outcome?
Thanks for answering this new barrage of questions! And, I am sorry that this one is so disjointed . . . I have a lot on my mind now.
Thanks so much for your response. As you may have guessed the time for my retest has come and gone. I decided not to do it. Before I tell you what I did, what would you have told them in order to let them know you were no longer interested? And, if you were in my shoes (sans the countermeasure knowledge you have that I don't) what would you have done? I feel like I should NOT have to use the countermeasures to prove myself after the good and honest way I have lived my life. On the other hand, I already tried the route of being completely honest and was falsely accused of deception. I didn't really want to work for the FBI anymore even if I passed after the way I was treated. It was not based on facts or reality, but rather a faulty machine.
I think you are correct, that 2 fails would look worse to a poly-ignorant background investigator. The possible additional consequences seemed to far outweigh the possible benefits, especially since I didn't want to work for them anymore. But, being accused of lying again about the same things or even more serious things would be worse! I just can't express to you what a slap in the face all this is after living my life the way I have. It really pisses me off, how dare they make decisions about what type of person I am based on a machine. If they laid down some shoe leather, they would see what they are really missing out on.
Since the retake part of it is in the past now, I would like to focus on another part of the issue. How should I respond to my current employer when they find out the results of the polygraph? My agency did away with the polygraph years and years ago because it was so unreliable. But, I don't know how they would react to this. Especially, since they have already looked deep into my background (including the completeness of my application and drug usage). Not to mention I have been drug tested at various employers since I was a teenager (all negative). And, for months on end they looked into my background and found nothing derogatory.
Lastly, you mentioned that if I went with the "complete truthfulness" approach I should hope that the FBI polygraph unit would not retaliate against me. What type of retaliation are you talking about, and have you heard of something like this happening before? What was the outcome?
Thanks for answering this new barrage of questions! And, I am sorry that this one is so disjointed . . . I have a lot on my mind now.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Oct 14, 2005, 04:07 AMQuote from: s on Oct 14, 2005, 01:41 AM1. Should I retake it?
Tough call. If you don't, it might be interpreted by your current employer as a tacit acknowledgment that the polygraph results were correct, and this could potentially have adverse consequences down the road. Normally, the result of any "re-test" with the FBI is foreordained: the applicant is almost certainly going to fail. The practice of offering re-tests seems to be little more than a bureaucratic charade to create the appearance of fairness while continuing to arbitrarily and capriciously disqualify applicants based on pseudoscience.
However, as a currently serving federal law enforcement officer, you might be shown deference that the typical FBI applicant would not receive. You may have a sporting chance of passing a re-test.
Alternatively, you could decline the re-test at this point and explain that you now understand the polygraph is a sham and have no interest in working for an employer that treats prospective employees so shabbily.
Quote2. Will it show up in my next 5 year background with my current agency?
You bet your life it will.
Quote3. If it will show up, what is better/worse? Just the one failed attempt, the possibility of 2 failed attempts, or the possibility of a failure and then a pass?
Again, it's a tough call. To a polygraph-ignorant security clearance adjudicator, two failed attempts will look worse than one. There is a further risk associated with taking a re-test: you could also end up being accused of countermeasure use (whether or not you choose to employ them).
Quote4. If I pass, should I take the job, or is it too much of a risk I might fail in the future and then get fired (in light of the fact that I am already a federal law enforcement officer)?
While the pre-employment polygraph failure rate is about 50%, the post-employment polygraph screening failure rate is much lower (in the low single digits, I believe).
Quote5. Even though I don't know much about them...what countermeasures are the easiest and most effective with the least possibility of being detected?
The available research suggests that mental countermeasures and tongue-biting are about equally effective. I think that mental countermeasures are arguably the hardest to detect. While polygraphers have eyes and might observe an ill-concealed tongue bite, they cannot read minds (even though they pretend otherwise).
Quote6. How much practice of countermeasure is needed before one is ready to use them in a real-life situation?
In research led by Charles Honts, about half of deceptive subjects passed the polygraph after receiving a maximum of 30 minutes of instruction on countermeasures. Of course, the more practice one can get, the better.
But I suggest that you abandon any thought of using countermeasures. Polygraphers from federal agencies that use the polygraph read this message board daily. The FBI polygraph unit will be looking for a federal LEO employed by an agency that doesn't polygraph applying for an analyst position who is coming for a re-test soon. Odds are, there aren't many, and you may be the only one. In addition, they know that people who are initially accused of deception and offered a re-test are likely to have researched polygraphy. If a person coming for a re-test denies having done such research, he/she is probably more likely to be accused of attempted countermeasure use (whether or not he/she actually uses them).
Should you decide to subject yourself to a re-test, I think it would be best to adopt the "complete honesty" approach. Courteously explain to your polygrapher that you've researched polygraphy and understand its scientific shortcomings. You might print out this message thread, provide it to the polygrapher, and explain that although you contemplated using countermeasures, you decided against it. Hopefully, the FBI polygraph unit will not retaliate against you for your candor.
Whatever choice you make, I wish you all the best.
Posted by s
- Oct 14, 2005, 01:41 AMI am currently a federal law enforcement officer. I decided to apply for an FBI analyst position. Everything was going great until the polygraph. I went in totally unprepared and, of course, failed. They said I lied about the completeness of my application (even though I went to insane lengths to ensure it was complete and it was already verified and cleared by my current agency). They also accused me of violating their drug policy (even though I have never done any drug in my entire life....no, not even once).
I sent off my letters after reading this website (if only I had found it before I had taken the polygraph) and before I even got the return receipts back I got a call to schedule me for the retest. It is SOON. My many questions are as follows!!!
1. Should I retake it?
2. Will it show up in my next 5 year background with my current agency?
3. If it will show up, what is better/worse? Just the one failed attempt, the possibility of 2 failed attempts, or the possibility of a failure and then a pass?
4. If I pass, should I take the job, or is it too much of a risk I might fail in the future and then get fired (in light of the fact that I am already a federal law enforcement officer)?
5. Even though I don't know much about them...what countermeasures are the easiest and most effective with the least possibility of being detected?
6. How much practice of countermeasure is needed before one is ready to use them in a real-life situation?
After reading the warning and consequences of failing an FBI Polygraph, I am very confused and worried what this polygraph may do to my current employment (even though they don't require a polygraph for any position) as well as my future in any federal employment.
PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!! Thanks!!!!!!
I sent off my letters after reading this website (if only I had found it before I had taken the polygraph) and before I even got the return receipts back I got a call to schedule me for the retest. It is SOON. My many questions are as follows!!!
1. Should I retake it?
2. Will it show up in my next 5 year background with my current agency?
3. If it will show up, what is better/worse? Just the one failed attempt, the possibility of 2 failed attempts, or the possibility of a failure and then a pass?
4. If I pass, should I take the job, or is it too much of a risk I might fail in the future and then get fired (in light of the fact that I am already a federal law enforcement officer)?
5. Even though I don't know much about them...what countermeasures are the easiest and most effective with the least possibility of being detected?
6. How much practice of countermeasure is needed before one is ready to use them in a real-life situation?
After reading the warning and consequences of failing an FBI Polygraph, I am very confused and worried what this polygraph may do to my current employment (even though they don't require a polygraph for any position) as well as my future in any federal employment.
PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!! Thanks!!!!!!