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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by gr8dad
- Jan 24, 2007, 03:53 AMRetcopper is so full of crap and in such denial! Just another cop looking after the six of all the crooked, degenerate cops of the world. It is too bad that you give good cops a bad rap. A while back you said the polygraph is necessary. Why is that? So you have something else to lie about to someone in order to extract a "confession". Cops like you are nothing more than bullies that think because you wear a badge that you are above everyone else. You would rather use JUNK science such as the polygraph and lies than actually getting off your butt and doing some real police work. People that are weak and have always been taught to respect and trust the police will break if they are being told that evidence exists against them. They trust you and you abuse that trust. On top of that you tell them they failed a polygraph which they also entrusted. So, what do you do? You talk to them like you are their friend as if you only want to help them out. You tell them to trust you and that the system will go easy on them if they just come clean. So, they feel helpless. They feel like no one would believe them no matter what. So, they make up a FALSE confession just to get out of that little room. Try to say that doesnt happen everyday to hundreds of people all accross this nation that claims innocent until proven guilty. That is a joke! If you say it doesnt you are either having the worst case of denial or you are simply a bofaced LIAR! I am tired of cops that will lie straight to your face to reach their agenda. They need to remove the word integrity from their police cruisers as they have none! I know you are wondering so I will just answer your question. Yes, this happened to me, but I was strong! The snake that called himself a detective could not break me. We have clearly showed my innocence and all is well! I am not a cop hater. I know alot of really great officers that present themselves with great honor. But, to me you represent yourself as nothing more than a lazy, sorry excuse for a police officer!
Posted by Indiana73
- Jan 14, 2007, 11:06 AMQuote from: polyfool on Sep 26, 2005, 12:11 PM
However, what your polygrapher didn't tell you was that you were submitting to a scientifically invalid, unreliable testing procedure that if you failed would blacklist you from future federal law enforcement employment and would be released to any other federal agency to which you apply.
Waitaminnit....I was told that this would only prevent future FBI employment, that they do NOT share this result with other agencies!!
Posted by koban4max
- Jan 14, 2007, 08:51 AMYa know what's funny? Poly people don't give a crap ab out your truth..they wanna know your nervousness...
Posted by Johnn
- Jan 06, 2007, 10:35 PMQuote from: FBI-Reject on Nov 13, 2006, 12:43 AMI somehow missed this original posting. I would be interested in knowing the name of your polygrapher. I too am Mormon, and was told the exact same line about having high standards as you were. I was also accused of reacting to the drug question. The chance is small, but if it was the same examiner doing the same thing to two Mormon applicants, that might be the basis to show systematic bias.
Hello reject, sorry for the delay.
I really can't say that I was discriminated against by the organization because I didn't tell them that I was religious when I took the test. I just told them that drug usage goes against my beliefs. For all they know, I could have been one of Jehovah's Witnesses or Hasidic Jewish. I only mentioned my denomination when I appealed.
Of course, they failed me on the appeal. What a waste of time and vacation day.
Posted by FBI-Reject
- Nov 13, 2006, 12:43 AMI somehow missed this original posting. I would be interested in knowing the name of your polygrapher. I too am Mormon, and was told the exact same line about having high standards as you were. I was also accused of reacting to the drug question. The chance is small, but if it was the same examiner doing the same thing to two Mormon applicants, that might be the basis to show systematic bias.
Posted by ronniewb66
- Nov 11, 2006, 08:08 PMJohn,
I had to take a 2nd poly and to date havent been told if I passed or failed it...yet before my 2nd poly, they started the BI....not sure why, as that makes no sense....
I had to take a 2nd poly and to date havent been told if I passed or failed it...yet before my 2nd poly, they started the BI....not sure why, as that makes no sense....
Posted by dungadin
- Sep 26, 2005, 06:14 PMThank you, everyone, for your advice.
I would like to get all of the information. However, based on the hostile attitude of the person I spoke with by telephone I am reluctant to go about doing that on my own.
I would like to ask a lawyer for assistance (not to file a lawsuit, but to get help in accessing my file and discovering where I stand).
Can anyone suggest such a lawyer? What area of legal specialty should I look for?
Thanks.
I would like to get all of the information. However, based on the hostile attitude of the person I spoke with by telephone I am reluctant to go about doing that on my own.
I would like to ask a lawyer for assistance (not to file a lawsuit, but to get help in accessing my file and discovering where I stand).
Can anyone suggest such a lawyer? What area of legal specialty should I look for?
Thanks.
Posted by retcopper
- Sep 26, 2005, 04:42 PMDungadin:
Some would agree that by definition that a person is a criminal if convicted of a crime. In the legal sense you are not a criminal if you have not been convicted of a crime. If you correctly heard the officer say "you are considered a criminal" because you might have failed a polygraph exam then you should prcoeed to get some answers. At the very least I would suggest that you speak to that officers superior, relay everything that transpired and ask why you are " being considered a criminal."
Some would agree that by definition that a person is a criminal if convicted of a crime. In the legal sense you are not a criminal if you have not been convicted of a crime. If you correctly heard the officer say "you are considered a criminal" because you might have failed a polygraph exam then you should prcoeed to get some answers. At the very least I would suggest that you speak to that officers superior, relay everything that transpired and ask why you are " being considered a criminal."
Posted by IC_employee
- Sep 26, 2005, 01:18 PMi didnt feel like reading through the new threads. any update on this one?
Posted by polyfool
- Sep 26, 2005, 12:11 PMQuote from: Johnn on Sep 26, 2005, 03:15 AMWait a second, am I missing something here? I don't remember signing a poly waiver. All I remember was initialling a few nonsense questions.Johnn: The form that you remember initialing and giving written responses to the FBI guidelines required your signature to proceed with the test. BY signing that form you gave your permission to be polygraphed. However, what your polygrapher didn't tell you was that you were submitting to a scientifically invalid, unreliable testing procedure that if you failed would blacklist you from future federal law enforcement employment and would be released to any other federal agency to which you apply.
Posted by Johnn
- Sep 26, 2005, 03:15 AMWait a second, am I missing something here? I don't remember signing a poly waiver. All I remember was initialling a few nonsense questions.
Quote from: polyfool on Sep 25, 2005, 05:38 PMDungadin:
Did you really know the rules going in? Did you know that you were submitting to an invalid, unreliable testing procedure when you gave consent? You probably believed in the polygraph like most people. After all, why would local, federal and state governments use it if it didn't work? That's how I looked at it. When I signed my waiver, I thought I had control over the situation by simply telling the truth. I didn't know my fate would be determined by a so-called test as reliable as a coin toss and a wacko, jerk polygraph examiner. That's not exactly informed consent. Had I been informed, I never would have consented to such an arrangement and I'm sure you wouldn't have, either.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Sep 25, 2005, 06:01 PMPolyfool,
You raise an excellent point. Persons who sign polygraph liability waivers agreeing to hold harmless a polygraph operator and the agency that employs him cannot be assumed to have granted informed consent. On the contrary, it is standard practice for polygraph operators to disinform examinees about polygraph procedure and validity.
You raise an excellent point. Persons who sign polygraph liability waivers agreeing to hold harmless a polygraph operator and the agency that employs him cannot be assumed to have granted informed consent. On the contrary, it is standard practice for polygraph operators to disinform examinees about polygraph procedure and validity.
Posted by polyfool
- Sep 25, 2005, 05:38 PMDungadin:
Did you really know the rules going in? Did you know that you were submitting to an invalid, unreliable testing procedure when you gave consent? You probably believed in the polygraph like most people. After all, why would local, federal and state governments use it if it didn't work? That's how I looked at it. When I signed my waiver, I thought I had control over the situation by simply telling the truth. I didn't know my fate would be determined by a so-called test as reliable as a coin toss and a wacko, jerk polygraph examiner. That's not exactly informed consent. Had I been informed, I never would have consented to such an arrangement and I'm sure you wouldn't have, either.
Did you really know the rules going in? Did you know that you were submitting to an invalid, unreliable testing procedure when you gave consent? You probably believed in the polygraph like most people. After all, why would local, federal and state governments use it if it didn't work? That's how I looked at it. When I signed my waiver, I thought I had control over the situation by simply telling the truth. I didn't know my fate would be determined by a so-called test as reliable as a coin toss and a wacko, jerk polygraph examiner. That's not exactly informed consent. Had I been informed, I never would have consented to such an arrangement and I'm sure you wouldn't have, either.
Posted by dungadin
- Sep 25, 2005, 01:16 AMOK, I've done some more thinking. It's not a matter of being up to the task, it's simply a matter of being realistic.
First, I don't have a criminal record. The police officer said that a failed poly makes them think of me as a criminal (loosely quoted) but that's not the same as having an official criminal record.
Second, while this situation may be unfair, it is not unjust. I knew the rules going in. I didn't do any research beforehand and paid the price (I didn't have anything to hide so I didn't worry about it). The police followed the law, I don' t doubt it.
Third, regarding mental anguish, yes - it sucked. It still does. However, I voluntarily submitted myself for the test. No one made me do it.
I would love to see the laws changed. If my record really is tarnished (I'm not sure it is), then I would like to clear it. However, I don't see any basis for a legal claim. There is no way that I could win. One needs to be 100% confident before making a legal challenge against a government. I signed waivers. I signed statements indicating that I understood the rules. I could only screw myself further if I sued and I'm not even sure I'm screwed right now!
The question remains, what happens next? I read a report on this site claiming that 75% of rejected applicants at one agency are rejected because of the poly. According to another statement, 50% of truthful applicants fail the poly because they are nervous (that's my category).
That's a heck of a lot of people! What are they doing now? Washing dishes at a greasy spoon along with released felons? Are they living productive lives?
First, I don't have a criminal record. The police officer said that a failed poly makes them think of me as a criminal (loosely quoted) but that's not the same as having an official criminal record.
Second, while this situation may be unfair, it is not unjust. I knew the rules going in. I didn't do any research beforehand and paid the price (I didn't have anything to hide so I didn't worry about it). The police followed the law, I don' t doubt it.
Third, regarding mental anguish, yes - it sucked. It still does. However, I voluntarily submitted myself for the test. No one made me do it.
I would love to see the laws changed. If my record really is tarnished (I'm not sure it is), then I would like to clear it. However, I don't see any basis for a legal claim. There is no way that I could win. One needs to be 100% confident before making a legal challenge against a government. I signed waivers. I signed statements indicating that I understood the rules. I could only screw myself further if I sued and I'm not even sure I'm screwed right now!
The question remains, what happens next? I read a report on this site claiming that 75% of rejected applicants at one agency are rejected because of the poly. According to another statement, 50% of truthful applicants fail the poly because they are nervous (that's my category).
That's a heck of a lot of people! What are they doing now? Washing dishes at a greasy spoon along with released felons? Are they living productive lives?
Posted by Twoblock
- Sep 24, 2005, 07:11 PMdunagin
It is very plain, to me, that you have suffered character assassination. It is also plain that the PD has commited a crime for maintaining a record falsely showing you are a criminal which was tatally thier unfounded call. Again it is plain, to me, that you are suffering mental anxiety. Otherwise, I don't think you would be on this site asking questions concerning your possible future employment.
If I was in your shoes, I would have someone pose as a background investigator and contact that PD. If your false criminal record is divulged, then that is the first step in your evidence gathering for your lawsuit. Ask a lawyer (out of that PD's jurisdiction) about this scenario. The reason I say this is because a lot of lawyers do not want to take on hometown PD's. Some hometown lawyers would actually notify the PD of your actions.
You sound like you are NOT up to the challenge, however. It's your call.
It is very plain, to me, that you have suffered character assassination. It is also plain that the PD has commited a crime for maintaining a record falsely showing you are a criminal which was tatally thier unfounded call. Again it is plain, to me, that you are suffering mental anxiety. Otherwise, I don't think you would be on this site asking questions concerning your possible future employment.
If I was in your shoes, I would have someone pose as a background investigator and contact that PD. If your false criminal record is divulged, then that is the first step in your evidence gathering for your lawsuit. Ask a lawyer (out of that PD's jurisdiction) about this scenario. The reason I say this is because a lot of lawyers do not want to take on hometown PD's. Some hometown lawyers would actually notify the PD of your actions.
You sound like you are NOT up to the challenge, however. It's your call.