- Welcome to AntiPolygraph.org Message Board.
A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by therock
- Nov 23, 2001, 01:24 AMThank you Netnin for the simplification, now I will try to learn how to perform the countermeasures undetected. I appreciate the tough love bro. Take care.
Posted by gottapass
- Nov 22, 2001, 03:14 PMEXCELLENT, INFORMATIVE POST. THANKS
Posted by G Scalabr
- Nov 22, 2001, 06:39 AMQuoteIT IS A WASTE OF YOUR TIME to worry about what may or may not be the control or relevant questions until the examiner goes over the question they will ask you right before the test. Worry about distinguishing between the two as the examiner reviews the test questions right before the test. Worrying about them before this period of time is a waste of time...if anything, get some ideas as to what they will turn into control questions.
This is an excellent point. We have received a lot of questions from people holding written background packets who are trying to characterize them as relevant/irrelevant/control. Many BI questions are very broad and/or are not phrased properly (yes/no) to be asked on a polygraph. While it cannot hurt to look over the BI forms, the questions during law enforcement polygraph "tests" are unlikely to deviate from those mentioned on this site. Namely, expect to face relevant questions about drug use (and possibly drug sales), and falsifying the application. Also, relevant questions are frequently asked about MAJOR CRIMES (note that exactly what constitutes a major crime will be explained in the pre-test interview) and being terminated from employment. Although rare, you also may see relevant questions about large gambling debts and/or gang affiliation. Sample control questions are also listed in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector . Note that questions regarding drunk driving and excessive drinking are controlquestions.
Quote4)If they administer a post-test interrogation/interview, NEVER fall into their game and admit to anything MORE than what you told them. You will be canned right then and there if you do. They might try and intimidate you--even if they suspect you passed--just to get you to blow it and make a damaging admission.
5)Never admit to using countermeasures EVER or even knowing about how the polygraph works. You will get booted if you admit to using countermeasures. If they ask you if you know how it works, respond by saying, "Yeah I heard it buzzes if the machine knows someones lying." Come up with a good response.
These are also very good points. Bluffing is a huge part of polygraphy. Many examiners often tell those who produce even the strongest of "passing" charts that they "failed" in an attempt to elicit admissions. Admitting to anything in the post-test interrogation is a bad idea.
With regard to countermeasures, expect accusations of attempting to "beat the box" to be standard procedure for every polygraph "test" in the not-so-distant future. Many examiners may be doing this already. With the widespread availability of this information, one should expect that as we speak, a good percentage of sophisticated subjects (both truthful and deceptive) are already employing these techniques. As knowledge of the polygraph fraud grows, there will soon come a day when only the most unsophisticated of subjects will be producing "failing" charts.
The only somewhat reliable method of detecting countermeasures polygraphers have is saying "I caught you" at the end of the "test" and hoping that the examinee is foolish enough to 'fess up. DONT FALL FOR IT. Deny, deny, deny.
Posted by MissionPoly-ban
- Nov 22, 2001, 06:14 AMTo clarify all your quesions about control and relevant questions:
Here are some simple rules that will end your chain of questions regarding control and relevant questions:
1)Make MINOR admissions during the pre-test interview.
Keep your number of times/value/etc. very low. Tell them the last time you did something (stoled/smoked pot/etc. was over 2-3 years ago...definitely over 2). Don' worry about control and relevant questions at this point. Start getting some ideas as to what they may be, but focus on making minor admissions (again, small # of times, small value, happened in the past, etc.).
2)Right before the test the examiner will go over the questions with you that will be answered yes or no during the test. DURING THIS TIME, catagorize what the control and relevant questions are going to be (based on what you have read about cotrols being broad and applying to nearly all people, and relevants being specific and serious in nature).
IT IS A WASTE OF YOUR TIME to worry about what may or may not be the control or relevant questions until the examiner goes over the question they will ask you right before the test. Worry about distinguishing between the two as the examiner reviews the test questions right before the test. Worrying about them before this period of time is a waste of time...if anything, get some ideas as to what they will turn into control questions.
3) Stick with your yes no responses during the actual test. Don't EVER stop in the middle and say, "Well I must admit...there was this one time when I did so and so that I forgot to tell you about..."
4)If they administer a post-test interrogation/interview, NEVER fall into their game and admit to anything MORE than what you told them. You will be canned right then and there if you do. They might try and intimidate you--even if they suspect you passed--just to get you to blow it and make a damaging admission.
5)Never admit to using countermeasures EVER or even knowing about how the polygraph works. You will get booted if you admit to using countermeasures. If they ask you if you know how it works, respond by saying, "Yeah I heard it buzzes if the machine knows someones lying." Come up with a good response.
Remember: Don't worry about distinguishing control and relevant questions until the examiner goes over them right before the test. They are taking all the information you responded to and creating ONLY 3 control which WILL BE EASY TO PICK OUT AND DISTINGUISH FROM THE 4 to 5 Serious and relevant question they will ask you.
Examiner says "Ok here are the only questions I am going to ask you during the test": (example)
1.Is your name Trout? irrelevant
2.Is paris in france? irrelevant
3.Have you ever forced sex on someone? relevant
4.Other than what you told me, have you lied to anyone else?
CONTROL
5.Have you ever dealt drugs? relevant
6. Besides what you told me, did you ever steal anythin else before the age of 18? control
7.Did you ever steal money from an employer? relevant
8.Is today sunday? irrelevant
9.Besides what you told me, have you ever drank more than what you said? control
10.Have you ever commited a felony crime and didnt get caught? relevant
When the examiner goes over the questions before the test, the irrelevant questions will stand out clearly because they are things that are OBVIOUS (questions 1,2,8 in example).
Control questions will be obvious to you as well because they are very broad ranging questions that cover a long span of time, can apply to most people, and are not serious in nature (question 4,6,9 in example).
Relevant questions will stick out clearly as well because they are serious questions that most people haven't taken part in and you will easily be able to figure that they are issues that are automatically grounds for being disqualified (rape, dealing drugs, etc).
As you can see, don't worry about what the control and relevant questions will be until right before the test when the examiner goes over them with you. At that point in time you shoud worry about catagorizing them as irrelevant, relevant and control.
Worrying about them before then is a waste of your time, effort, and energy. Before the examiner goes over them, focus on making limited and MINOR admissions and GETTING YOUR STORY STRAIGHT!
GETTING YOUR STORY STRAIGHT IS A VERY IMPORTANT PART.
God forbid you forget numbers and dates that you told them in the lifestyle questionnaire or pre-test interview.
Netnin
Here are some simple rules that will end your chain of questions regarding control and relevant questions:
1)Make MINOR admissions during the pre-test interview.
Keep your number of times/value/etc. very low. Tell them the last time you did something (stoled/smoked pot/etc. was over 2-3 years ago...definitely over 2). Don' worry about control and relevant questions at this point. Start getting some ideas as to what they may be, but focus on making minor admissions (again, small # of times, small value, happened in the past, etc.).
2)Right before the test the examiner will go over the questions with you that will be answered yes or no during the test. DURING THIS TIME, catagorize what the control and relevant questions are going to be (based on what you have read about cotrols being broad and applying to nearly all people, and relevants being specific and serious in nature).
IT IS A WASTE OF YOUR TIME to worry about what may or may not be the control or relevant questions until the examiner goes over the question they will ask you right before the test. Worry about distinguishing between the two as the examiner reviews the test questions right before the test. Worrying about them before this period of time is a waste of time...if anything, get some ideas as to what they will turn into control questions.
3) Stick with your yes no responses during the actual test. Don't EVER stop in the middle and say, "Well I must admit...there was this one time when I did so and so that I forgot to tell you about..."
4)If they administer a post-test interrogation/interview, NEVER fall into their game and admit to anything MORE than what you told them. You will be canned right then and there if you do. They might try and intimidate you--even if they suspect you passed--just to get you to blow it and make a damaging admission.
5)Never admit to using countermeasures EVER or even knowing about how the polygraph works. You will get booted if you admit to using countermeasures. If they ask you if you know how it works, respond by saying, "Yeah I heard it buzzes if the machine knows someones lying." Come up with a good response.
Remember: Don't worry about distinguishing control and relevant questions until the examiner goes over them right before the test. They are taking all the information you responded to and creating ONLY 3 control which WILL BE EASY TO PICK OUT AND DISTINGUISH FROM THE 4 to 5 Serious and relevant question they will ask you.
Examiner says "Ok here are the only questions I am going to ask you during the test": (example)
1.Is your name Trout? irrelevant
2.Is paris in france? irrelevant
3.Have you ever forced sex on someone? relevant
4.Other than what you told me, have you lied to anyone else?
CONTROL
5.Have you ever dealt drugs? relevant
6. Besides what you told me, did you ever steal anythin else before the age of 18? control
7.Did you ever steal money from an employer? relevant
8.Is today sunday? irrelevant
9.Besides what you told me, have you ever drank more than what you said? control
10.Have you ever commited a felony crime and didnt get caught? relevant
When the examiner goes over the questions before the test, the irrelevant questions will stand out clearly because they are things that are OBVIOUS (questions 1,2,8 in example).
Control questions will be obvious to you as well because they are very broad ranging questions that cover a long span of time, can apply to most people, and are not serious in nature (question 4,6,9 in example).
Relevant questions will stick out clearly as well because they are serious questions that most people haven't taken part in and you will easily be able to figure that they are issues that are automatically grounds for being disqualified (rape, dealing drugs, etc).
As you can see, don't worry about what the control and relevant questions will be until right before the test when the examiner goes over them with you. At that point in time you shoud worry about catagorizing them as irrelevant, relevant and control.
Worrying about them before then is a waste of your time, effort, and energy. Before the examiner goes over them, focus on making limited and MINOR admissions and GETTING YOUR STORY STRAIGHT!
GETTING YOUR STORY STRAIGHT IS A VERY IMPORTANT PART.
God forbid you forget numbers and dates that you told them in the lifestyle questionnaire or pre-test interview.
Netnin