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Posted by Marty
- Jun 18, 2004, 01:24 AMpillpopper,
Polygraphers don't (at least in their professional writing) maintain the polygraph measures deception. The most common description I've found in poly material is that the response is proportional to "threat." The key is then to select a control question that will generate more of a percieved "threat" than the relevant question. This breaks down when the examiner guesses wrong selecting or conditioning the controls. It is also problematic if the examinee isn't convinced the poly works hence the extensive preliminaries designed to convince once of it's accuracy. Worse, it seriously breaks down when the examinee understands the protocol.
Absent the use of CM's, I also believe an informed examinee is more likely to fail a PLCQT.
-Marty
Quote from: pillpopper on Jun 18, 2004, 12:30 AMthe issue that they cant honestly deal with is the one the Dr. Richardson points out. there is no credible way to claim that the responses that "indicate deception" are caused only by deception and not simply a fear of being falsely accused or having a long time career goal flushed down the toilet on the basis of 3 or 4 questions. thus if the innocent examinee cannot calm this fear and/or is not intimidated by the control questions, then you will fail. thats me in a nutshell.
besides i think lielabs is right. no offense but this site only added to my anxiety. it made me feel like i was cheating since i didnt tell my polygrapher all that i had learned. then again, i didnt take the listed advice of the admit all your research policy. that seemed like it would only make it worse
Polygraphers don't (at least in their professional writing) maintain the polygraph measures deception. The most common description I've found in poly material is that the response is proportional to "threat." The key is then to select a control question that will generate more of a percieved "threat" than the relevant question. This breaks down when the examiner guesses wrong selecting or conditioning the controls. It is also problematic if the examinee isn't convinced the poly works hence the extensive preliminaries designed to convince once of it's accuracy. Worse, it seriously breaks down when the examinee understands the protocol.
Absent the use of CM's, I also believe an informed examinee is more likely to fail a PLCQT.
-Marty
Posted by Bill Crider
- Jun 18, 2004, 12:30 AMthe issue that they cant honestly deal with is the one the Dr. Richardson points out. there is no credible way to claim that the responses that "indicate deception" are caused only by deception and not simply a fear of being falsely accused or having a long time career goal flushed down the toilet on the basis of 3 or 4 questions. thus if the innocent examinee cannot calm this fear and/or is not intimidated by the control questions, then you will fail. thats me in a nutshell.
besides i think lielabs is right. no offense but this site only added to my anxiety. it made me feel like i was cheating since i didnt tell my polygrapher all that i had learned. then again, i didnt take the listed advice of the admit all your research policy. that seemed like it would only make it worse
besides i think lielabs is right. no offense but this site only added to my anxiety. it made me feel like i was cheating since i didnt tell my polygrapher all that i had learned. then again, i didnt take the listed advice of the admit all your research policy. that seemed like it would only make it worse
Posted by Marty
- Jun 17, 2004, 03:36 PMQuote from: pillpopper on Jun 15, 2004, 03:53 PMthis is from the post about the car theft, but i didnt want to hijack that thread.
can you explain how this is done, because it is the reason I cannot pass my FBI polygraph employment exam. what can an examiner do to relieve my stress about failing and have me "produce" a "truthful" chart
When you are nervous about failing, you know exactly how the test works, and you aren't using countermeasures. how can you pass? what possibkle control question can elicit more response than a relevant?
I think even without this site it is a problem for the FBI test because their own application manual clearly states that the exam focuses on national security, drugs and the FD-140 application, not if you ever lied to your mother.
pillpopper,
If you ever get a "better" answer to this than lielabs gave you at polyplace I would be most interested. For instance Matte, in his book "Examining and Cross-Examination of Experts" provides little except a rather bald and unsupported assertion that an examiner himself would be unable to fool the polygraph. This, in spite of often disparaging the directed lie control question test as highly unreliable and producing high levels of false negatives. Rather contradictory since the CQT given to an experienced polygrapher more resembles a DLCQT than PLCQT. Lielabs came very close to admitting as much. A rather touchy area for them.
-Marty
Posted by Bill Crider
- Jun 15, 2004, 03:53 PMthis is from the post about the car theft, but i didnt want to hijack that thread.
can you explain how this is done, because it is the reason I cannot pass my FBI polygraph employment exam. what can an examiner do to relieve my stress about failing and have me "produce" a "truthful" chart
When you are nervous about failing, you know exactly how the test works, and you aren't using countermeasures. how can you pass? what possibkle control question can elicit more response than a relevant?
I think even without this site it is a problem for the FBI test because their own application manual clearly states that the exam focuses on national security, drugs and the FD-140 application, not if you ever lied to your mother.
QuoteRegarding the "confound of the fear of consequences" for innocent examinees taking PLCQT's, I still assert the proper foundation and setting of PLC's go a long way to resolving that issue.
can you explain how this is done, because it is the reason I cannot pass my FBI polygraph employment exam. what can an examiner do to relieve my stress about failing and have me "produce" a "truthful" chart
When you are nervous about failing, you know exactly how the test works, and you aren't using countermeasures. how can you pass? what possibkle control question can elicit more response than a relevant?
I think even without this site it is a problem for the FBI test because their own application manual clearly states that the exam focuses on national security, drugs and the FD-140 application, not if you ever lied to your mother.