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Posted by George W. Maschke
- Feb 09, 2004, 02:48 AMBurton,
The words "other than what you told me" are used to exclude prior admissions, whether to "control" questions or to relevant questions. "Control" questions are more likely to be prefaced with such a qualifier because most people will have some minor admissions to make to them. But as we point out at p. 143 of the 3rd edition:
The words "other than what you told me" are used to exclude prior admissions, whether to "control" questions or to relevant questions. "Control" questions are more likely to be prefaced with such a qualifier because most people will have some minor admissions to make to them. But as we point out at p. 143 of the 3rd edition:
QuoteDon't fall into the trap, however, of thinking that every question that is modified in this manner is a "control" question. For example, suppose you are being polygraphed for employment with an agency whose stated policy is that marijuana use up to 15 times is acceptable but that any usage in excess thereof is an automatic disqualifier. If you admit having used marijuana six times, one of your relevant questions may well be, "Besides what you told me, have you ever used any illegal drugs?" The key point here is that while modifiers such as "besides" often accompany a "control" question, the mere presence of such a modifier does not guarantee that a question is a "control" question.
Posted by burton
- Feb 08, 2004, 09:56 PMGeorge... i have been studying "The Lie Behind The Lie". I just noticed something i dont understand and is very relevant to my case. The question that they said they had a problem with (as i had stated before) was other then the 4 times you told me have you ever smoked marijuana. But you state in chapter 3 that most "control questions" begin with "other then what you told me". If this is a control question how did i fail it? Am i suppose to use counter measures on this question. This is now confusing to me. This is my question that i need to have a lower response to compared to my control questions, no? So when they ask "other then what you told me......" this is not a control question, correct?
Posted by Canadian Crusader
- Feb 05, 2004, 01:29 PMIMHO, and I reiterate I am no expert, it sounds like the only questions they had a problem with on the first poly were the drug issues. They are the questions most every polygrapher "finds an applicant not 100% truthful on". I believe your polygrapher had absolutely nothing on you in terms of deceptive readings so he took a stab in the dark on the most common subject, drugs. It would appear you passed the original poly and they are just fishing potentially based on some signals you were exuding or the polygraphers "gut feeling". However if I had to do it again I would do everything and anything possible to ensure I passed that next poly with flying colors.
Posted by burton1179
- Feb 04, 2004, 09:50 PMCrusader.. thank you. I appriciate you taking the time to help me with an issue that is important to me. I will read the defense article. I am trying to gain as much knowledge on the subject as I can before re-test. I have read the Lie Behind The Lie. I fully understand it and believe that I can deploy counter measures with no problem. The lay out of this test was very basic and picking out the control questions should be no problem. I was told I would get a different examiner which is good so i avoid bias. However do you think i should just stick to my guns and tell the truth again. Or go the safe way and use the counter measures. i know this is my choice. Just looking for advice cause im not sure if the examiners will share my responses to the control questions espically if i use counter measures and raise my responses to them this time. Just curious. Once again thanks guys I appriciate the help.
Posted by Canadian Crusader
- Feb 04, 2004, 04:08 PMBurton,
Might I suggest also downloading the copy of the Department of Defense Polygraph Institutes Interview and Intorrogation Handbook. It is found on this websites main page on the right hand side. Study up on interrogations and the body language exuded by truthful interrogatees.
Your polygrapher is not having a retest to view the charts, he is giving you some time to sweat your answer and then hit you with an interrogation technique and pressure in hopes that you will spill the beans and "confess" to another number other than 4. Don't change your answer or you will be DQ'd like I was.
Your passing this stage of the process is going to rely more on whether the polygrapher "thinks and believes" you are telling the truth rather than the results from another poly. I believe he won't even hook you up to the machine the second time around.
Hopefully he hasen't already made up his mind regarding your answers to the drug question. If so you might not even get that second chance.
After viewing this site for over a year now I can say I have nopted that the biggest problem any polygrapher seems to have during an applicants poly is the drug issue. The polygraphers know the poly doesn't work, they just use it as a tool to pressure the uninformed applicants into confessing or changing answers to fabricate a confession as George eluded to. In your case Burton I would say they have nothing on you and just want to make certain you don't change you answer. Study the Interrogation Handbook to ensure you don't exude any "signs" that they could construe as deception, addimately stick to your answer of trying pot 4 times, and you should do just fine. Don't give the polygrapher any additional info. Give your answer and if you have to politely decline further interrogation by saying you have told everything there is to tell and leave the interrogation room. I don't think doing that will hurt your chances.
Might I suggest also downloading the copy of the Department of Defense Polygraph Institutes Interview and Intorrogation Handbook. It is found on this websites main page on the right hand side. Study up on interrogations and the body language exuded by truthful interrogatees.
Your polygrapher is not having a retest to view the charts, he is giving you some time to sweat your answer and then hit you with an interrogation technique and pressure in hopes that you will spill the beans and "confess" to another number other than 4. Don't change your answer or you will be DQ'd like I was.
Your passing this stage of the process is going to rely more on whether the polygrapher "thinks and believes" you are telling the truth rather than the results from another poly. I believe he won't even hook you up to the machine the second time around.
Hopefully he hasen't already made up his mind regarding your answers to the drug question. If so you might not even get that second chance.
After viewing this site for over a year now I can say I have nopted that the biggest problem any polygrapher seems to have during an applicants poly is the drug issue. The polygraphers know the poly doesn't work, they just use it as a tool to pressure the uninformed applicants into confessing or changing answers to fabricate a confession as George eluded to. In your case Burton I would say they have nothing on you and just want to make certain you don't change you answer. Study the Interrogation Handbook to ensure you don't exude any "signs" that they could construe as deception, addimately stick to your answer of trying pot 4 times, and you should do just fine. Don't give the polygrapher any additional info. Give your answer and if you have to politely decline further interrogation by saying you have told everything there is to tell and leave the interrogation room. I don't think doing that will hurt your chances.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Feb 03, 2004, 04:49 AMBurton,
It is hard to suppress a reaction to a question regarding which you've been falsely accused of deception. Understanding polygraph procedure (it depends on trickery, not science) may help to make you less nervous. We provide information on countermeasures in TLBTLD to offer truthful applicants with a means of protecting themselves against the random error associated with this invalid test, not to help liars beat the system.
Some people are unwilling to use countermeasures under any circumstances, and that's an ethical choice I respect. However, I think one's choice regarding whether to use countermeasures should be made in light of the understanding that the polygraph procedure itself is fraudulent: it is fundamentally dependent on the polygrapher lying to and otherwise attempting to deceive you.
To view TLBTLD, you might try the following. First, if you were trying to view it in a web browser window (using the Acrobat plug-in), you might try downloading the entire PDF file (it's about 1 mb) to your hard desk and viewing it with Acrobat Reader.
If you still can't view the PDF file, then you might try re-installing Acrobat and/or upgrading to a later version. Another option would be to view the file, and perhaps print relevant pages, from another computer.
As a last resort, an HTML version of the first edition of TLBTLD (the current edition is the 3rd) is available here:
http://antipolygraph.org/the_lie_behind_the_lie_detector/the_lie.html
It is hard to suppress a reaction to a question regarding which you've been falsely accused of deception. Understanding polygraph procedure (it depends on trickery, not science) may help to make you less nervous. We provide information on countermeasures in TLBTLD to offer truthful applicants with a means of protecting themselves against the random error associated with this invalid test, not to help liars beat the system.
Some people are unwilling to use countermeasures under any circumstances, and that's an ethical choice I respect. However, I think one's choice regarding whether to use countermeasures should be made in light of the understanding that the polygraph procedure itself is fraudulent: it is fundamentally dependent on the polygrapher lying to and otherwise attempting to deceive you.
To view TLBTLD, you might try the following. First, if you were trying to view it in a web browser window (using the Acrobat plug-in), you might try downloading the entire PDF file (it's about 1 mb) to your hard desk and viewing it with Acrobat Reader.
If you still can't view the PDF file, then you might try re-installing Acrobat and/or upgrading to a later version. Another option would be to view the file, and perhaps print relevant pages, from another computer.
As a last resort, an HTML version of the first edition of TLBTLD (the current edition is the 3rd) is available here:
http://antipolygraph.org/the_lie_behind_the_lie_detector/the_lie.html
Posted by burton
- Feb 03, 2004, 04:13 AMGeorge, thank you I was hoping you would respond to the post. I have read over the forums and can see that you are a very educated man. I stuck to my answer of 4 cause thats the truth im a pretty cut and dry guy. This agency is very interested in me and I have excelled in every other aspect of the recruitment process. But why if a polygraph examiner says that I i might not be telling the truth or that the number four doesnt seem to be right make me come back and take it again. I say this because it is a 4 hour drive and hotel fees , ect. If they were just trying to get me to omit (and i did not) ... why another test? Another thing George I cant seem to view the Lie Behind the Lie. I do have adobe. But is wont let me click and chapters all i can view is the cover. Aside from that cause Im not trying to lie or deploy a bunch of counter measures . I have nothing to hide and apparently the truth on " have you used marijuana more then the 4 times you told me" has them thinking i am deceitful. What can i do when this question comes up again .. i ask this cause now i know that is the question in question and i am nervous and think that if they didnt believe me the first time why would they now that im extra nervous. When they kept asking that question i kept thinking to myself what am i doing that they dont believe me and get more anxious and nervous after the 3rd time they asked it (of course mixing it in every 4 questions or so.) What advice do you have here? Its just a simple question im not trying to lie to. But they tell me theres something else there. I dont want to mess this second test up, this job is important to me. Thank you in advance George.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Feb 03, 2004, 03:46 AMBurton,
Be wary of any attempt by your polygrapher to induce you to change the number of times you admittedly used marijuana. A common interrogator's trick is to suggest that, "to help you pass the test," instead of saying you used marijuana four times, that you say you used it "less than ten" (or some similar number) times. If you change your answer in this manner, your having done so can be characterized as an admission that you lied about only using marijuana four times and thus become the basis for your disqualification.
For information on how to protect against the risk of a false positive outcome, see The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, especially Chapters 3 & 4.
Be wary of any attempt by your polygrapher to induce you to change the number of times you admittedly used marijuana. A common interrogator's trick is to suggest that, "to help you pass the test," instead of saying you used marijuana four times, that you say you used it "less than ten" (or some similar number) times. If you change your answer in this manner, your having done so can be characterized as an admission that you lied about only using marijuana four times and thus become the basis for your disqualification.
For information on how to protect against the risk of a false positive outcome, see The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, especially Chapters 3 & 4.
Posted by burton
- Feb 03, 2004, 02:12 AMThis is my first post. I have actually viewed this site before I had my polygraph for a Law Enforcement Officer. I have nothing to hide but my friends got me nervous saying you can be viewed as deceptive when you are in fact not. I took the test not thinking I would have a problem. I did fine on the test except for one question. I reported to my investigator that I had in fact tried Marijuana my freshman year of college. He then asked me for an exact number. I came up with 4 that I recall. That was the number I gave. After completion of the polygraph the examiner told me that there was a problem with my number 4 and that i wasent being totally truthful, otherwise i did fine on the test. He asked me if I had any other information to disclose regarding this or if i wanted to change my number. I said no and I was confused as to why they think i am not telling the truth. So my question is this: My investigator wants me to come in and take it again next week. I do not want the same result on this test again. I would be a very good police officer and have been preparing for it for the past 5 years getting my degree in criminal justice. I dont want this aspect of there being something else im not telling them to effect my job consideration status. Can someone help me on what to do? This job is very important to me. Thanks in advance.