- Welcome to AntiPolygraph.org Message Board.
A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by PAQ
- Jan 30, 2004, 05:34 PMThe reason that they will not pass you if you have ever done LSD is that some doctors feel that even trying it one time can cause brain damage and they don't want to chance it. 
I wouldn't mention it.
I wouldn't mention it.Posted by AngryJerry
- Jan 27, 2004, 08:48 PMTo quote Kona...
"For example, the departments that I appled to would not allow any usage of LSD in one's lifetime. If you tried LSD one time, then you were out the door, period, end of story. "
This is the case as I know it too. Any PD will DQ you for sure for the drug usage you mentioned, even though it's 30 yrs ago. Based on what you said in your original post if you are applying for LE then you're out of luck.
Quite honestly you might want to rethink your attitude as well. I'm not trying to be a jerk but the kiss my ass attitude isn't going to work. The ONLY way you'll get them to look the other way on this stuff is if you go to them hat in hand. If you approach recruiting the way you're planning to you don't stand a chance.
"For example, the departments that I appled to would not allow any usage of LSD in one's lifetime. If you tried LSD one time, then you were out the door, period, end of story. "
This is the case as I know it too. Any PD will DQ you for sure for the drug usage you mentioned, even though it's 30 yrs ago. Based on what you said in your original post if you are applying for LE then you're out of luck.
Quite honestly you might want to rethink your attitude as well. I'm not trying to be a jerk but the kiss my ass attitude isn't going to work. The ONLY way you'll get them to look the other way on this stuff is if you go to them hat in hand. If you approach recruiting the way you're planning to you don't stand a chance.
Posted by Kona
- Jan 26, 2004, 06:29 AMWhoops, my bust. Sorry about that; George is correct. I got bore sighted on the "other than what you told me" part of the question, and didn't pay attention to the rest. Thanks for catching my blunder George. Ms Iron, my apologies.
Kona
Kona
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jan 26, 2004, 04:15 AMKona,
You wrote, among other things:
Actually, the question, "Other than the drugs you mentioned have you EVER taken any other drug?" is a relevant question. The examiner does not want the examinee to lie on this question.
Note that although, because of minor admissions, probable-lie "control" questions often end up being prefaced with "Other than what you told me..." such wording is no clear indication that a question is necessarily a "control" question.
You wrote, among other things:
QuoteThe question: Other than the drugs you mentioned.......? is a known lie control question. The examiner WANTS you to lie on this question during the polygraph exam.
Actually, the question, "Other than the drugs you mentioned have you EVER taken any other drug?" is a relevant question. The examiner does not want the examinee to lie on this question.
Note that although, because of minor admissions, probable-lie "control" questions often end up being prefaced with "Other than what you told me..." such wording is no clear indication that a question is necessarily a "control" question.
Posted by Kona
- Jan 25, 2004, 11:28 PMMs Iron,
You make some very good points concerning the relevance of our behavior in our teen years compared to nowadays.....especially when those teen years were over 30 years ago. I personally believe that if you have lived the past 25 years drug free, then you are at an extremely low level to no level of risk to revert back to that type of behavior. Unfortunately, many police departments don't feel that way, and are very rigid in their interpretation of drug use in one's past. For example, the departments that I appled to would not allow any usage of LSD in one's lifetime. If you tried LSD one time, then you were out the door, period, end of story. Hopefully your extreme honesty won't close the door to career opportunities in law enforcement. There are many here on these boards that would say your teen activities are DQ events, and you have no business being a police officer. I don't necessarily feel that way based on your work history, and abstinence from all drug usage since your teen years.
By the way, my usage of the phrase "run of the mill drugs" was a poor selection of words. I should have said, drugs that are routinely abused by citizens of this country.
Good luck in your quest for a job in law enforcement.
Kona
You make some very good points concerning the relevance of our behavior in our teen years compared to nowadays.....especially when those teen years were over 30 years ago. I personally believe that if you have lived the past 25 years drug free, then you are at an extremely low level to no level of risk to revert back to that type of behavior. Unfortunately, many police departments don't feel that way, and are very rigid in their interpretation of drug use in one's past. For example, the departments that I appled to would not allow any usage of LSD in one's lifetime. If you tried LSD one time, then you were out the door, period, end of story. Hopefully your extreme honesty won't close the door to career opportunities in law enforcement. There are many here on these boards that would say your teen activities are DQ events, and you have no business being a police officer. I don't necessarily feel that way based on your work history, and abstinence from all drug usage since your teen years.
By the way, my usage of the phrase "run of the mill drugs" was a poor selection of words. I should have said, drugs that are routinely abused by citizens of this country.
Good luck in your quest for a job in law enforcement.
Kona
Posted by ms_iron
- Jan 25, 2004, 10:02 PMThanks for the help Kona....
I have quite the projected imagination about everything in life, not just a polygraph. When you spent 5 years as a teen, partying and not as an addict, just a once a week recreational vice...30 years ago but drinking to the point of drunk and taking whatever, you DON"T remember allot. Then, you GROW UP and gain a sense of what is really important in life and you leave the hazed years behind you. Memory from 30 years ago, even straight as a arrow, is only fragments of how we perceive them today, not how they, in reality really happened. Oh I know I never did heroin.
What I meant by brassiness is admitting, I did this and that.
There are allot of things, people won't admit to, not just drug use. I don't care what someone thinks of my lack of scruples or morals from 30 years ago BUT the last thing I would want to be called is a liar.
Some things have to be rationalized, like why in the world would I admit to trying LSD a handful of times and not something lesser, like mushrooms?
That's like admitting you killed one person.... but lying and saying that you never slapped, someone else.
I will say no, since I honestly have no specific recollection of taking a mushroom but I do remember they were around and I am pretty sure I saw them in a party atmosphere.
They are naturally concerned that you (me) tell the truth but care more about the last 10 or so years compared to 30 years ago.
I can't take away 3 decades ago and I won't hide it either.
I have had 100% clean driving record for my whole life and since my late teens, I even deplore the smell of alcohol on a person. I don't drink or do drugs. The smell of alcohol makes me gag, money wasted, as I say.
I should think the last 25 to 30 years of my life speak for something. I hope.
The things that went on back then would be unheard of today. Like, in the city I grew up in, they never arrested a female for DUI, they just followed you home and they tried to cop a piece and usually got one. I went to one cops house and I almost fell on the floor, I know I had been drinking allot then, I must of been 17 or so, but I remember bags of dope, bongs, pipes and stacks of cases of beer in his kitchen, all over the kitchen. I asked where it came from and he said 'non arrest confiscation'. Back then they stopped a car full of kids, took whatever was there and then let them go.
Unfortunately, this is how 'many cops' I knew, back then operated.
Cocaine and speed are run of the mill drugs? OMG they are so dangerous and addictive. They must be run of the mill today, but in the early and mid 70's pot, lsd and barbiturates were very run of the mill. They didn't have drugs like crystal ice, (speed right?) not that I'm aware of, tho I think some did speed.
Thanks for the help and letting me ramble on. I've had my nose in the books non stop, working on my BS in Law Enforcement mgmt and needed this break.
I'll close with this: shouda, couda wouda. You can't take it back. You can only move on in life.
I have quite the projected imagination about everything in life, not just a polygraph. When you spent 5 years as a teen, partying and not as an addict, just a once a week recreational vice...30 years ago but drinking to the point of drunk and taking whatever, you DON"T remember allot. Then, you GROW UP and gain a sense of what is really important in life and you leave the hazed years behind you. Memory from 30 years ago, even straight as a arrow, is only fragments of how we perceive them today, not how they, in reality really happened. Oh I know I never did heroin.
What I meant by brassiness is admitting, I did this and that.
There are allot of things, people won't admit to, not just drug use. I don't care what someone thinks of my lack of scruples or morals from 30 years ago BUT the last thing I would want to be called is a liar.Some things have to be rationalized, like why in the world would I admit to trying LSD a handful of times and not something lesser, like mushrooms?
That's like admitting you killed one person.... but lying and saying that you never slapped, someone else.
I will say no, since I honestly have no specific recollection of taking a mushroom but I do remember they were around and I am pretty sure I saw them in a party atmosphere.
They are naturally concerned that you (me) tell the truth but care more about the last 10 or so years compared to 30 years ago.
I can't take away 3 decades ago and I won't hide it either.
I have had 100% clean driving record for my whole life and since my late teens, I even deplore the smell of alcohol on a person. I don't drink or do drugs. The smell of alcohol makes me gag, money wasted, as I say.
I should think the last 25 to 30 years of my life speak for something. I hope.
The things that went on back then would be unheard of today. Like, in the city I grew up in, they never arrested a female for DUI, they just followed you home and they tried to cop a piece and usually got one. I went to one cops house and I almost fell on the floor, I know I had been drinking allot then, I must of been 17 or so, but I remember bags of dope, bongs, pipes and stacks of cases of beer in his kitchen, all over the kitchen. I asked where it came from and he said 'non arrest confiscation'. Back then they stopped a car full of kids, took whatever was there and then let them go.
Unfortunately, this is how 'many cops' I knew, back then operated.
Cocaine and speed are run of the mill drugs? OMG they are so dangerous and addictive. They must be run of the mill today, but in the early and mid 70's pot, lsd and barbiturates were very run of the mill. They didn't have drugs like crystal ice, (speed right?) not that I'm aware of, tho I think some did speed.
Thanks for the help and letting me ramble on. I've had my nose in the books non stop, working on my BS in Law Enforcement mgmt and needed this break.
I'll close with this: shouda, couda wouda. You can't take it back. You can only move on in life.
Posted by Kona
- Jan 25, 2004, 09:15 PMQuote from: ms_iron on Jan 24, 2004, 06:13 PMOr let's say you are asked 'have you abused any prescription drugs in the last 5 years? What does abuse mean?
Does that question mean.....Yes because....
I took 2 pain pills every 6 hours after surgery instead of 1 every 6 hours, because 1 pill didn't work?
I think I'm psyching myself out, but I am really concerned about these asinine questions.
Don't get all wrapped around the axle about these questions. I believe that the word "abuse" in this case would mean that you took precription drugs for recreational use, to get high, instead of the intended use, which would have been to relieve pain from your surgery. Relax.......
Kona
Posted by Kona
- Jan 25, 2004, 09:11 PMQuote from: ms_iron on Jan 24, 2004, 05:43 PMOne of the other questions about drugs was have you ever taken mushrooms, peyote etc?
I don't recall ever doing it.... but it was 30 years ago if I in fact even did do this? I remember it being around then, and I think I saw some, but if I did do it, I sure don't remember it.
I answered the question-I don't think so?
The question will still mean 'HAVE YOU EVER' but how the hell do you remember everything from 30 years ago?
I honestly think that they will expect you to know whether you took mushrooms, peyote, etc, regardless if it was 30 years ago. These are not your average run of the mill drugs like pot, coke, or speed, that are used by a wide variety of dopers in this country. Waffling on the question and "not being sure" makes you appear to be hiding something.
Quote from: ms_iron on Jan 24, 2004, 05:43 PMThe PD Lt. laughed when I was there on a pre-interview and told them this, they said they don't care what I did 30 years ago.
I beg to differ. If you told the LT that you committed a felony, or was a heroin addict for a short time 30 years ago, you would be history. In fact, I quite surprised that your admitted LSD use didn't DQ you on the spot. Most police departments that I am familiar with don't tolerate that kind of drug use in your entire lifetime.
Quote from: ms_iron on Jan 24, 2004, 05:43 PMOr they ask...Other than the drugs you mentioned have you EVER taken any other drug?
How the hell do I know? I don't remember what I did when I was 16 or 18. Only very few things I remember and I probably don't even remember them correctly.
Does anyone understand my question?
The question: Other than the drugs you mentioned.......? is a known lie control question. The examiner WANTS you to lie on this question during the polygraph exam.
Nobody is expecting you to remember every detail of your life when you were a teenager. Do the best you can, and don't make incrimimating statements based on events that you "might have done." If you don't remember doing something, then your answer to the question is "no."
Quote from: ms_iron on Jan 24, 2004, 05:43 PMAlso some Dept's. applications (I have applied other places) want to know EVERY job you ever had. I have had, the same job, for 25 years now, BUT in my teen years I had so many jobs and I don't remember but 2 or 3 of them and the places don't even exist anymore.
Then list the 2 or 3 jobs that you remember, and leave it alone. Note on your application that the places of employment don't exist anymore.
Quote from: ms_iron on Jan 24, 2004, 05:43 PMAlso, is it against any law, to tape your interrogation session? I mean have it in your purse set on voice activation?
I don't know if it is against any law, but I would highly suggest that you don't do this. You would have a lot of explaining to do if it were discovered that you had a hidden tape recording device during your polygraph. I would venture to say that this would guarantee you a DQ on the spot. Why do you want to do this?
Quote from: ms_iron on Jan 24, 2004, 05:43 PMAll this polygraph reading I'm doing, is freaking me out. I want to be brutally honest though. I think the polygrapher will be shocked at my brassiness.
Honesty is good. Being brutally honest to the point of self-deprecation isn't. Volunteering information can open a Pandora's Box, and work against you in your background investigation. Never forget that this whole process is an interview, an interrogation.....you are under the microscope the entire time.
One last piece of advise........you might want to tone down the attitude a few degrees. Brashness (I assume that's what you meant) is one trait that you DON'T want to display to your polygraph examiner if you want the job. You might want to try and be a little more thankful for the job opportunity, and convey to the examiner that you really want the job. Police departments want to hire mature, responsible people that think before they act, not brash people that are rash and unthinking. Just my 2 cents.
Kona
Posted by ms_iron
- Jan 24, 2004, 06:13 PMOr let's say you are asked 'have you abused any prescription drugs in the last 5 years? What does abuse mean?
Does that question mean.....Yes because....
I took 2 pain pills every 6 hours after surgery instead of 1 every 6 hours, because 1 pill didn't work?
I think I'm psyching myself out, but I am really concerned about these asinine questions.
Does that question mean.....Yes because....
I took 2 pain pills every 6 hours after surgery instead of 1 every 6 hours, because 1 pill didn't work?
I think I'm psyching myself out, but I am really concerned about these asinine questions.
Posted by ms_iron
- Jan 24, 2004, 05:43 PMI will be taking my first polygraph and I have no problem telling the truth, no matter how bad it is. If they don't like me, tough shit.
I'm 46 years old, teen years were in the 70's, a very pronounced decade for drugs. Right or wrong, it was that way.
I answered drug questions (all questions) truthfully on my application(s)
question? Ever smoked pot, hash....
answer: YES
question: How many times?
answer: MANY times during the 70's
----------------------
question: Ever taken LSD?
answer: 'Possibly' about 5 times during the 70's
OK now here is my question.
One of the other questions about drugs was have you ever taken mushrooms, peyote etc?
I don't recall ever doing it.... but it was 30 years ago if I in fact even did do this? I remember it being around then, and I think I saw some, but if I did do it, I sure don't remember it.
I answered the question-I don't think so?
The question will still mean 'HAVE YOU EVER' but how the hell do you remember everything from 30 years ago?
The PD Lt. laughed when I was there on a pre-interview and told them this, they said they don't care what I did 30 years ago.
BUT, in a polygraph, how do you separate the memory in your mind?
So they ask lets say...Have you done BLANK in the last 5 years, well my answer is NO, but in my mind I have the bit's and pieces of memory and I guess guilt... from 30 years ago, of doing it then.
Or they ask...Other than the drugs you mentioned have you EVER taken any other drug?
How the hell do I know? I don't remember what I did when I was 16 or 18. Only very few things I remember and I probably don't even remember them correctly.
Does anyone understand my question? The knowledge of doing what you remember you did, a long time ago, is still in your mind.
I'm sorry if this is long but I really need some help here.
More...
Also some Dept's. applications (I have applied other places) want to know EVERY job you ever had. I have had, the same job, for 25 years now, BUT in my teen years I had so many jobs and I don't remember but 2 or 3 of them and the places don't even exist anymore.
Also, is it against any law, to tape your interrogation session? I mean have it in your purse set on voice activation?
All this polygraph reading I'm doing, is freaking me out. I want to be brutally honest though. I think the polygrapher will be shocked at my brassiness.
Please advise. Thank you.
I'm 46 years old, teen years were in the 70's, a very pronounced decade for drugs. Right or wrong, it was that way.
I answered drug questions (all questions) truthfully on my application(s)
question? Ever smoked pot, hash....
answer: YES
question: How many times?
answer: MANY times during the 70's
----------------------
question: Ever taken LSD?
answer: 'Possibly' about 5 times during the 70's
OK now here is my question.
One of the other questions about drugs was have you ever taken mushrooms, peyote etc?
I don't recall ever doing it.... but it was 30 years ago if I in fact even did do this? I remember it being around then, and I think I saw some, but if I did do it, I sure don't remember it.
I answered the question-I don't think so?
The question will still mean 'HAVE YOU EVER' but how the hell do you remember everything from 30 years ago?
The PD Lt. laughed when I was there on a pre-interview and told them this, they said they don't care what I did 30 years ago.
BUT, in a polygraph, how do you separate the memory in your mind?
So they ask lets say...Have you done BLANK in the last 5 years, well my answer is NO, but in my mind I have the bit's and pieces of memory and I guess guilt... from 30 years ago, of doing it then.
Or they ask...Other than the drugs you mentioned have you EVER taken any other drug?
How the hell do I know? I don't remember what I did when I was 16 or 18. Only very few things I remember and I probably don't even remember them correctly.
Does anyone understand my question? The knowledge of doing what you remember you did, a long time ago, is still in your mind.
I'm sorry if this is long but I really need some help here.
More...
Also some Dept's. applications (I have applied other places) want to know EVERY job you ever had. I have had, the same job, for 25 years now, BUT in my teen years I had so many jobs and I don't remember but 2 or 3 of them and the places don't even exist anymore.
Also, is it against any law, to tape your interrogation session? I mean have it in your purse set on voice activation?
All this polygraph reading I'm doing, is freaking me out. I want to be brutally honest though. I think the polygrapher will be shocked at my brassiness.
Please advise. Thank you.