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Posted by Fair Chance
- Oct 21, 2003, 10:40 AMGentlemen,
I do not think that the FBI is currently using this added item. I am not sure how it will be welcomed into the polygraph community as a whole because it would possibly give some amount of credence to non-polygraph procedures (CVSA, Eye movement, etc.).
I can see the CIA using it because their whole security investigation and interview is based on a certain amount of intimidation and bullying. This "eye dilation" sounds "scientific" and on the surface might sway someone who otherwise is not concerned with the polygraph as a truth telling device.
Regards.
I do not think that the FBI is currently using this added item. I am not sure how it will be welcomed into the polygraph community as a whole because it would possibly give some amount of credence to non-polygraph procedures (CVSA, Eye movement, etc.).
I can see the CIA using it because their whole security investigation and interview is based on a certain amount of intimidation and bullying. This "eye dilation" sounds "scientific" and on the surface might sway someone who otherwise is not concerned with the polygraph as a truth telling device.
Regards.
Posted by educated guest
- Oct 20, 2003, 06:38 PMThis sounds like a complete load of crap, just like most of the other purported claims that the pro polygraph community tells our disillusioned and often naive public. They are well aware that their silly tests are easily beaten through controlled and calculated countermeasures. However, they know that one cannot realistically control his/her pupil activity so they have adopted this technique that is foolproof. To this I shake my head in disbelief and laugh. I've said it before and I'll say it again; LIE DETECTION IS NOT POSSIBLE. One can claim to know when a person is lying all he/she wants to, but that in itself is a lie. It is only a matter of time until everyone knows that polygraphs are a joke. I like to compare polygraphers to meteorologists in the fact that no other job allows so much room for error, the difference being that weather men are'nt destroying innocent people's lives and reputations.
Posted by Nate
- Oct 20, 2003, 05:47 PMHe stated that the test was with the CIA and it was described by him by the CIA recruiter that they use the same test as in the movie "The Recruit" and that its' a new technology and is 100% accurate, bla bla bla. I told him I thought it didn't exist and that I would check into it. It sounds based upon the research that it might be possible. Wanted to know if anyone got that far in the testing recently to confirm this....
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Oct 15, 2003, 02:28 PMThe DoD's annual polygraph program report to Congress for FY 1997 includes the following:
The 1998 report includes the following:
I also found the following citation (which I haven't checked):
Lubow, R.E., & Fein, O. (1996). Pupillary size in response to a visual guilty knowledge test: New technique for the detection of deception. Journal of Experimental Psychology: Applied, 2: 164-177.
Quote0culomotor and Pupil Analysis for PDD. A grant has been awarded to Eye Dynamics, Inc. of Torrance, California, to examine changes in pupil size and eye movement during a PDD examination. They will use a research plan designed by Institute personnel to determine if oculomotor changes are indicative of deception. The first phase of testing has been completed and the data are being evaluated.
The 1998 report includes the following:
Quote0culomotor and Pupil Analysis for PDD. Studies are ongoing to examine changes in pupil size and eye movement during a PDD examination. Some of the studies indicate changes in pupil diameter can be used to detect deception.
I also found the following citation (which I haven't checked):
Lubow, R.E., & Fein, O. (1996). Pupillary size in response to a visual guilty knowledge test: New technique for the detection of deception. Journal of Experimental Psychology: Applied, 2: 164-177.
Posted by Drew Richardson
- Oct 15, 2003, 09:43 AMNate,
The eye reflex that involves pupillary dilation and constriction is quite well understood as well as the internal and external influences that lead to this reflex. The autonomic nervous system involvement, i.e., parasympathetic innervation of the circular smooth muscle (sphincter pupillae) of the iris and the sympathetic innervation of the radial smooth muscle (dilator pupillae) leading to constriction and dilation, respectively, forms the basis of perhaps what is one of the earliest recognized of bodily reflexes.
With regard to lie detection, this is just one more dependent variable (e.g., heart rate, electrodermal (sweating) response, etc) that is reasonably well understood that when utilized within a paradigm involving a rather poorly constructed, not well understood, and completely confounded independent variable (the asking of and response to questions within a control question lie test) that leads to meaningless and often misrepresented and misused data. Neither pupillary dilation nor any other dependent variable (addition of or modification to) will improve a paradigm involving a severely flawed independent variable (the various control question test polygraph formats) and any representation otherwise is nothing but a smoke and mirrors golly gee whiz representation to an ignorant lay population.
The eye reflex that involves pupillary dilation and constriction is quite well understood as well as the internal and external influences that lead to this reflex. The autonomic nervous system involvement, i.e., parasympathetic innervation of the circular smooth muscle (sphincter pupillae) of the iris and the sympathetic innervation of the radial smooth muscle (dilator pupillae) leading to constriction and dilation, respectively, forms the basis of perhaps what is one of the earliest recognized of bodily reflexes.
With regard to lie detection, this is just one more dependent variable (e.g., heart rate, electrodermal (sweating) response, etc) that is reasonably well understood that when utilized within a paradigm involving a rather poorly constructed, not well understood, and completely confounded independent variable (the asking of and response to questions within a control question lie test) that leads to meaningless and often misrepresented and misused data. Neither pupillary dilation nor any other dependent variable (addition of or modification to) will improve a paradigm involving a severely flawed independent variable (the various control question test polygraph formats) and any representation otherwise is nothing but a smoke and mirrors golly gee whiz representation to an ignorant lay population.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Oct 15, 2003, 09:07 AMNate,
Welcome back! I am aware of no research supporting the notion that a reliable pupil dilation-based lie detector has been developed. There is no mention of any such technology in the National Academy of Sciences' report, The Polygraph and Lie Detection.
Could you tell me which agency (CIA, FBI, or both) told your friend that his pupil dilation would be monitored? Also, can you provide any further information about the claim of 100% accuracy? Who made that claim? Where and when? If the claim was made in writing, could you obtain a copy?
Welcome back! I am aware of no research supporting the notion that a reliable pupil dilation-based lie detector has been developed. There is no mention of any such technology in the National Academy of Sciences' report, The Polygraph and Lie Detection.
Could you tell me which agency (CIA, FBI, or both) told your friend that his pupil dilation would be monitored? Also, can you provide any further information about the claim of 100% accuracy? Who made that claim? Where and when? If the claim was made in writing, could you obtain a copy?
Posted by Nate
- Oct 15, 2003, 06:43 AMI have a friend who is currently applying for the FBI and CIA. They said he will be taking a polygraph test and explained to him all the processes. He stated one of the tests was that they put a camera in front of his eyes and check his pupil to dilate, just like in the movie "The Recruit". I told him I used to post on this cite a lot and never heard of such device and he said its new CIA technology and that the pupil test is 100% accurate according to the CIA. My question to him was, if it is 100%, then why do they measure all the other responses then??? Anyhow, can anyone help out on info on this new device or are they feeding him Hollywood BS?
Sincerely,
Nate
Old antipolygraph.org member
Sincerely,
Nate
Old antipolygraph.org member