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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by Fair Chance
- Sep 25, 2003, 11:24 AMWow,
Over a year later and I keep getting flashbacks of my moments in the polygraph chair.
Marty, it is a fifty-fifty crapshoot. I used the complete honesty approach and passed but I think there were many other mitigating circumstances in my situation which this applicant does not have the benefit of.
I have already mentioned my ordeal in detail in previous posts.
George, I do think that my keeping a certain "distance" of not using names, departments or mentioning too many specifics was beneficial to my appeal. The FBI definitely wants to keep control of the application process and wants as little of it made public as possible.
Regards.
Over a year later and I keep getting flashbacks of my moments in the polygraph chair.
Marty, it is a fifty-fifty crapshoot. I used the complete honesty approach and passed but I think there were many other mitigating circumstances in my situation which this applicant does not have the benefit of.
I have already mentioned my ordeal in detail in previous posts.
George, I do think that my keeping a certain "distance" of not using names, departments or mentioning too many specifics was beneficial to my appeal. The FBI definitely wants to keep control of the application process and wants as little of it made public as possible.
Regards.
Posted by Marty
- Sep 23, 2003, 05:56 PMGeorge,
Good points.
-Marty
Good points.
-Marty
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Sep 23, 2003, 04:47 PMjdavu,
I don't know why you have been scheduled for a re-test. Perhaps it is just to interrogate you about whether you're a spy, but it is to be noted that in recent years, the FBI has become more liberal in granting re-tests to applicants accused of deception (although based on feedback received, the results are usually the same).
If I were in your shoes, I would adopt the "complete honesty" approach described in Chapter 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector in your next polygraph session.
By mentioning that you were accused of deception with regard to contact with a representative of a foreign intelligence service, were not questioned about drug use, and have been scheduled for a "re-test" soon, you have made it much easier for the FBI polygraph unit to guess your identity. (You can be confident that your post will be read by FBI polygraphers.) Reportedly, only about 1% of FBI applicants fail the counterintelligence portion of the pre-employment examination, so at any one time, there are probably no more than a handful of applicants who have failed the counterintelligence portion and are currently scheduled for a re-test.
Moreover, anyone who initially fails a pre-employment polygraph examination and is scheduled for a re-test is likely at heightened risk of being accused of countermeasure use (whether or not he/she chooses to employ countermeasures). Polygraphers know that anyone who has been accused of deception is more likely to research polygraphy and learn about countermeasures. Indeed, some polygraphers might have a hard time believing anyone scheduled for a re-test who claims not to have researched polygraphy. There is no evidence that the polygraph community has any reliable method of countermeasure detection; the tactic of choice seems to be to make an accusation and badger the subject for an admission.
In adopting the "complete honesty" approach, I would mention having visited AntiPolygraph.org, having read TLBTLD, and having posted on this message board.
Before your second polygraph examination, I strongly suggest that you consult Mark Zaid, who is representing several plaintiffs who are suing the FBI and other federal agencies over their pre-employment polygraph practices. You'll find filings from these cases here:
http://antipolygraph.org/litigation.shtml#zaid
Mr. Zaid's e-mail address is ZaidMS@aol.com or, better yet, call him at (202) 223-9050. An FBI polygrapher's accusation that you were deceptive with regard to counterintelligence issues can be very harmful to your prospects for future government employment in positions that require a security clearance, and it would be prudent to seek legal advice on how best to protect your rights.
I don't know why you have been scheduled for a re-test. Perhaps it is just to interrogate you about whether you're a spy, but it is to be noted that in recent years, the FBI has become more liberal in granting re-tests to applicants accused of deception (although based on feedback received, the results are usually the same).
If I were in your shoes, I would adopt the "complete honesty" approach described in Chapter 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector in your next polygraph session.
By mentioning that you were accused of deception with regard to contact with a representative of a foreign intelligence service, were not questioned about drug use, and have been scheduled for a "re-test" soon, you have made it much easier for the FBI polygraph unit to guess your identity. (You can be confident that your post will be read by FBI polygraphers.) Reportedly, only about 1% of FBI applicants fail the counterintelligence portion of the pre-employment examination, so at any one time, there are probably no more than a handful of applicants who have failed the counterintelligence portion and are currently scheduled for a re-test.
Moreover, anyone who initially fails a pre-employment polygraph examination and is scheduled for a re-test is likely at heightened risk of being accused of countermeasure use (whether or not he/she chooses to employ countermeasures). Polygraphers know that anyone who has been accused of deception is more likely to research polygraphy and learn about countermeasures. Indeed, some polygraphers might have a hard time believing anyone scheduled for a re-test who claims not to have researched polygraphy. There is no evidence that the polygraph community has any reliable method of countermeasure detection; the tactic of choice seems to be to make an accusation and badger the subject for an admission.
In adopting the "complete honesty" approach, I would mention having visited AntiPolygraph.org, having read TLBTLD, and having posted on this message board.
Before your second polygraph examination, I strongly suggest that you consult Mark Zaid, who is representing several plaintiffs who are suing the FBI and other federal agencies over their pre-employment polygraph practices. You'll find filings from these cases here:
http://antipolygraph.org/litigation.shtml#zaid
Mr. Zaid's e-mail address is ZaidMS@aol.com or, better yet, call him at (202) 223-9050. An FBI polygrapher's accusation that you were deceptive with regard to counterintelligence issues can be very harmful to your prospects for future government employment in positions that require a security clearance, and it would be prudent to seek legal advice on how best to protect your rights.
Posted by Mr. Truth
- Sep 23, 2003, 04:28 PMYou can private message me and I will tell you, in step-by-step detail, how to beat the polygraph. Your examiner will be totally clueless about the use of countermeasures.
Posted by jdavu
- Sep 23, 2003, 04:19 PMDoes anyone have any thoughts on why they are calling me back to be tested again?
I was never tested with respect to drug usage. Am I being called back to be tested on drug usage only? And if so, does it matter? I may have already failed the "espionage" part of the test.
I would greatly appreciate any insight.
I was never tested with respect to drug usage. Am I being called back to be tested on drug usage only? And if so, does it matter? I may have already failed the "espionage" part of the test.
I would greatly appreciate any insight.
Posted by Marty
- Sep 23, 2003, 04:11 PMQuote from: jdavu on Sep 23, 2003, 03:58 PMMarty,
I did not know the failure rate was 50%. Had I known, I am sure I would have at least read a little bit about the test before I took it. I'm sure I wouldn't have felt as powerless as I did.
jdavu,
Thanks. I suspected that was the case.
-Marty
Posted by jdavu
- Sep 23, 2003, 03:58 PMMarty,
I did not know the failure rate was 50%. Had I known, I am sure I would have at least read a little bit about the test before I took it. I'm sure I wouldn't have felt as powerless as I did.
Now I have to go in and take the test again and act as clueless as the first time. It's not going to be easy.
jdavu
I did not know the failure rate was 50%. Had I known, I am sure I would have at least read a little bit about the test before I took it. I'm sure I wouldn't have felt as powerless as I did.
Now I have to go in and take the test again and act as clueless as the first time. It's not going to be easy.
jdavu
Posted by Marty
- Sep 23, 2003, 03:25 PMjdavu,
Were you aware, prior to the polygraph exam, that the rate candidates "failed" was approx 50%? If not, what was your expectation and would you have searched for polygraph information had you known that?
TIA.
-Marty
Were you aware, prior to the polygraph exam, that the rate candidates "failed" was approx 50%? If not, what was your expectation and would you have searched for polygraph information had you known that?
TIA.
-Marty
Posted by Mr. Truth
- Sep 23, 2003, 03:04 PMBut, let me be the first to welcome you here, regardless of how you found this place. Any advice? Yep - read the book, practice, and smoke the poly like a cheap cigar on the next "test."
On the other hand, you could be a sleeper agent trying to dispel notions that you have had contact with FN's. Wow, maybe the polygraph does work! (NOT!)
On the other hand, you could be a sleeper agent trying to dispel notions that you have had contact with FN's. Wow, maybe the polygraph does work! (NOT!)
Posted by Marty
- Sep 23, 2003, 03:01 PMQuote from: jdavu on Sep 23, 2003, 11:21 AMI found this web site by accident and I read TLBTLD. .....Found the site by "accident?" Did you mean you found it doing an internet search on polys after your screening experience? That wouldn't exactly be an accident.
-Marty
Posted by jdavu
- Sep 23, 2003, 11:21 AMI took the pre-employment polygraph and the polygrapher said there were issues about some of the questions regarding contact with foreign intelligence officials. I have never had any contact with foreign intel. officials. I was told that I must be thinking about a specific person who approached me. What? I didn't know what the hell he was talking about.
I found this web site by accident and I read TLBTLD. It completely opened my eyes. The book described everything that went on during the polygraph. I can't believe I was so easily duped. I have been rescheduled to take the test again very soon. Any advice? I don't want to be disqualified from FBI employment based on something like this.
I found this web site by accident and I read TLBTLD. It completely opened my eyes. The book described everything that went on during the polygraph. I can't believe I was so easily duped. I have been rescheduled to take the test again very soon. Any advice? I don't want to be disqualified from FBI employment based on something like this.