- Welcome to AntiPolygraph.org Message Board.
A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by beech trees
- Jan 17, 2003, 11:29 AMQuote from: George W. Maschke on Jan 17, 2003, 06:20 AM
Skeptic,
Polycop's outrageous likening of AntiPolygraph.org to racist hate groups, etc. is not new. See his post dated 19 July 2002 (#8) in the message thread A word or two from the "other side, in which he likens me to the racist "Reverend" Matt Hale of the "World Church of the Creator."
Hey I remember that thread. That's the discussion in which pro-polygraph contributor 'public_servant' [bleh!] confirmed the insanity that is the pro-polygraph viewpoint by stating in part:
QuoteLastly the examinee. Some may actually think into it too much or be overly emotional, know too much, or just be plain unsuitable physically or psychologically.
To which I replied, So if one is too intellectual or introspective, too passionate, too well-educated, or most incredibly, built physically improperly or mentally 'unsuitable', the polygraph won't work? Gee, is there anyone in the US populace who DOESN'T belong in one of the above-cited demographics? And would a potential polygraph examinee get a pass on his polygraph interrogation if he laid claim to one or more of the characteristics you mention above? Or, would you simply conclude he or she was 'trying to hide something' and thus heighten your suspicions of that person, further prejudicing the examination?
I have yet to receive a response to that one.
Let us also reflect on the beard-scratching hypocrisy of yet another conflicting statement by the pro-polygraph community. Depending upon with whom you speak in the pro-polyraph community, and apparently at what time of the day and-- who knows-- perhaps even the position of the stars in the sky, the countermeasures described on this website are either 1. easily detected and defeated (but they can't tell us how) or are 2. dangerous techniques that are likened to the publishing of high explosives manuals, the production of masking agents, or the sale of illegal cable descramblers.... well, it kind of petered out there at the end in terms of drama... you work with what you've been given.
Dave, Stalwart Contributor on The World's Most Dangerous Bulletin Board
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jan 17, 2003, 06:20 AMQuote from: Skeptic on Jan 16, 2003, 12:54 PM
And Polycop completes his descent into babbling nonsense. I don't think I'll dignify that last one with an analysis.
Skeptic
Skeptic,
Polycop's outrageous likening of AntiPolygraph.org to racist hate groups, etc. is not new. See his post dated 19 July 2002 (#8) in the message thread A word or two from the "other side, in which he likens me to the racist "Reverend" Matt Hale of the "World Church of the Creator."
Posted by beech trees
- Jan 16, 2003, 03:03 PMPolycop, you forgot:
"Even though you've clearly demonstrated that polygraphs are scientifically unsound, wholly lacking in accuracy, allow actual spies to roam and pillage national security at will while innocent men and women's lives are destroyed because of false positives, allow actual child molesters to roam free among our children while falsely branding innocents as pedophiles, and finally are easily defeated by simple countermeasures even a child can master.... we'll still swear our allegiance to the box and deny, delay, and obfuscate any attempts to eradicate our dangerous prescence in the law enforcement equation (excepting as a clever interrogation prop)."
"Even though you've clearly demonstrated that polygraphs are scientifically unsound, wholly lacking in accuracy, allow actual spies to roam and pillage national security at will while innocent men and women's lives are destroyed because of false positives, allow actual child molesters to roam free among our children while falsely branding innocents as pedophiles, and finally are easily defeated by simple countermeasures even a child can master.... we'll still swear our allegiance to the box and deny, delay, and obfuscate any attempts to eradicate our dangerous prescence in the law enforcement equation (excepting as a clever interrogation prop)."
Posted by Skeptic
- Jan 16, 2003, 12:54 PMQuote from: PolyCop on Jan 16, 2003, 10:44 AM
Yes,
and....
"Even though we sell these cable descramblers, we do not encourage the theft of cable services..."
The cable descramblers sold by cable companies generally work as advertised, and don't randomly keep up to half of the users from receiving paid-for services (or send them to jail and/or ruin their careers)...
Quote"Even though we manufacture this substance to alter your urine, we in no way wish to help dopers beat a urine test..."
Easily the closest you come to a decent analogy. But another one could be made: countermeasure advice is akin to advising someone how to avoid false-positives on a drug test (e.g. don't eat poppyseeds just before).
Drug testing just doesn't have the random, unaccounted-for false-positive problems that plague the polygraph.
Quote"Even though we show you how to build a pipe bomb, we do not support the blowing up of one's ex-spouse..."
Oh, please. Given the reliance on the polygraph's well-documented damage to national security (which has undoubtedly resulted in the deaths of people loyal to the U.S.), that analogy is completely backwards. But hey, anything for the cause, right, Polycop?
Quote"Even though we teach that races other than ours are sub human and need to be exterminated as soon as and in any way possible, this website in no way condones violence or illegal activities..."
And Polycop completes his descent into babbling nonsense. I don't think I'll dignify that last one with an analysis.
Skeptic
Posted by PolyCop
- Jan 16, 2003, 10:44 AMQuote from: George W. Maschke on Jan 16, 2003, 05:12 AM
guest_65,
With regard to the countermeasure information available on this website, we have provided it to help the truthful to protect themselves against the random error associated with polygraphy, especially polygraph screening, not to help liars beat the "test." Nonetheless, it is inevitable that those who choose to lie with regard to the relevant questions in a polygraph examination may also exploit this information.
Yes,
and....
"Even though we sell these cable descramblers, we do not encourage the theft of cable services..."
"Even though we manufacture this substance to alter your urine, we in no way wish to help dopers beat a urine test..."
"Even though we show you how to build a pipe bomb, we do not support the blowing up of one's ex-spouse..."
"Even though we teach that races other than ours are sub human and need to be exterminated as soon as and in any way possible, this website in no way condones violence or illegal activities..."
Have a nice day, George...
PolyCop...
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jan 16, 2003, 05:12 AMguest_65,
You may rest assured that you will not be "kicked out" of these forums because of your expressed views.
With regard to the countermeasure information available on this website, we have provided it to help the truthful to protect themselves against the random error associated with polygraphy, especially polygraph screening, not to help liars beat the "test." Nonetheless, it is inevitable that those who choose to lie with regard to the relevant questions in a polygraph examination may also exploit this information.
You mention that you "don't have a clue" as to polygraph theory. For a straightforward explanation, see Chapter 3 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. This will no doubt be of great interest to your wife, as well.
As for changing things, I invite you to work with us for polygraph reform. AntiPolygraph.org seeks the passage of a new, Comprehensive Employee Polygraph Protection Act that would have prevented your wife's employer from asking her to submit to a pseudoscientific polygraph "test." You and your wife can help by contacting your congressperson and senators and asking them to sponsor this legislative reform.
You may rest assured that you will not be "kicked out" of these forums because of your expressed views.
With regard to the countermeasure information available on this website, we have provided it to help the truthful to protect themselves against the random error associated with polygraphy, especially polygraph screening, not to help liars beat the "test." Nonetheless, it is inevitable that those who choose to lie with regard to the relevant questions in a polygraph examination may also exploit this information.
You mention that you "don't have a clue" as to polygraph theory. For a straightforward explanation, see Chapter 3 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. This will no doubt be of great interest to your wife, as well.
As for changing things, I invite you to work with us for polygraph reform. AntiPolygraph.org seeks the passage of a new, Comprehensive Employee Polygraph Protection Act that would have prevented your wife's employer from asking her to submit to a pseudoscientific polygraph "test." You and your wife can help by contacting your congressperson and senators and asking them to sponsor this legislative reform.
Posted by guest_65
- Jan 16, 2003, 04:42 AMThis will probably be my last post. Because, I will either be kicked out or screwed with so much I don't want to come back, which defeats the purpose of this site. I came to this site in hopes of getting some logical answers as to why an polygraph examination was administered with false results?
I've learned that, The polyographer, Has every intention to lie to get you to lie, and this acceptable, In the polyographer community. And that this can be countermeasured through deception. Also, That anyone who knows about this area is either prior law enforcement or future enforcement, And would rather try to prove how much they know to one another than to actually doing something about it... I for one am now against the so called polygraph test or more commonly known as "The Lie Detector". For Several reasons. (1) My wife told the truth and was hung out to dry! (2) I found that the examiner was only there for a trophy, And did not care who was really the guilty party, she just wanted to prove someone was lying. (3) You can't even get a straight answer from Law enforcement, (Because after reading most of the threads from officers or future officers they had to lie or deceive to pass the test). So what have I to go on? I will admit, I don't have a clue as to the polygraph theory. But what I do know is this. If your a cop, And you deceived the test, then you can't be trusted. If you are in an NSA, FBI, Secuity field officer and you deceived the test, then you can't be trusted. Who do you put your faith in? I've read threads about law enforcement candidates saying thank you, for the book. These candidates are a piece of work! Do you think all the officers had to deceive to get the position? The honest ones got the job because they are truly honest. Also, The threads i've read are from candidates who have had an questionable childhood and are seeking an loophole deception to get what they want. If you were already a cop you'd say you have to play by the rules. And since your not already an badged officer so do you! And for those who wish to deceive, KISS MY ASS!!! Just because you can deceive an polygraph does not make you better or more honrable than anyone else, nor does a badge and a gun. your not to be trusted in my eyes. And if you are truly of honor, Stand up, tell the truth! Thats what being an police officer is made of. And there is never any shame in telling the truth! If you can qualify without lying or deception you are truly the person for the job!
And for those of you with the anti-polygraph movement in site keep up the hard work and know that you have law biding citizens behind you! And will support you.
KEEP IT REAL!
I've learned that, The polyographer, Has every intention to lie to get you to lie, and this acceptable, In the polyographer community. And that this can be countermeasured through deception. Also, That anyone who knows about this area is either prior law enforcement or future enforcement, And would rather try to prove how much they know to one another than to actually doing something about it... I for one am now against the so called polygraph test or more commonly known as "The Lie Detector". For Several reasons. (1) My wife told the truth and was hung out to dry! (2) I found that the examiner was only there for a trophy, And did not care who was really the guilty party, she just wanted to prove someone was lying. (3) You can't even get a straight answer from Law enforcement, (Because after reading most of the threads from officers or future officers they had to lie or deceive to pass the test). So what have I to go on? I will admit, I don't have a clue as to the polygraph theory. But what I do know is this. If your a cop, And you deceived the test, then you can't be trusted. If you are in an NSA, FBI, Secuity field officer and you deceived the test, then you can't be trusted. Who do you put your faith in? I've read threads about law enforcement candidates saying thank you, for the book. These candidates are a piece of work! Do you think all the officers had to deceive to get the position? The honest ones got the job because they are truly honest. Also, The threads i've read are from candidates who have had an questionable childhood and are seeking an loophole deception to get what they want. If you were already a cop you'd say you have to play by the rules. And since your not already an badged officer so do you! And for those who wish to deceive, KISS MY ASS!!! Just because you can deceive an polygraph does not make you better or more honrable than anyone else, nor does a badge and a gun. your not to be trusted in my eyes. And if you are truly of honor, Stand up, tell the truth! Thats what being an police officer is made of. And there is never any shame in telling the truth! If you can qualify without lying or deception you are truly the person for the job!
And for those of you with the anti-polygraph movement in site keep up the hard work and know that you have law biding citizens behind you! And will support you.
KEEP IT REAL!