- Welcome to AntiPolygraph.org Message Board.
A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by koban4max
- Jan 14, 2007, 11:26 PMQuote from: wannabajbad on Jan 14, 2007, 10:39 PMim a new memeber on this board - i will be taking my cvsa shortly and was wondering, did either of you employ countermeasures or were you straight up?
Don't bother using cm...it's pointless.
I was straight up about things and tell you the truth I wasn't really nervous...well little..but..ya know...
The thing is...U won't be really nervous. I thought I was...then they asked few questions and repeated it...
by then you just don't care at all...and you be okay.
At least with me.
Posted by wannabajbad
- Jan 14, 2007, 10:39 PMim a new memeber on this board - i will be taking my cvsa shortly and was wondering, did either of you employ countermeasures or were you straight up?
Posted by koban4max
- Jan 14, 2007, 05:59 PMmaybe they'll just do intense investigation only. I can only wish you good luck though. Are you planning to retake the poly?
Posted by Indiana73
- Jan 14, 2007, 05:38 PMI'm not a saint, but I never got suspended or even detention in school. Like I said, I never smoked. Rarely drink. Only one significant altercation with the law that was dismissed in the end. I have several people I can request a reference from, and am asking a former boss, current coworker, and a longtime family friend.
Posted by koban4max
- Jan 14, 2007, 03:37 PMHmm... Interesting....
How was your background history? Do you have good reference or something? Would law enforcement be little "easier" than federal job?
How was your background history? Do you have good reference or something? Would law enforcement be little "easier" than federal job?
Posted by Indiana73
- Jan 14, 2007, 11:02 AMI was initially told I passed a few days afterward by phone, but a few days after that I was told to call the FBI. A man who I had never met said the "official" results were that I failed. I believe I failed because of anxiety, not because I lied. They asked "Were you completely truthful on your security form?" which got my mind racing, because they were requiring 15 years of recollection, and how could I be sure I was recalling things correctly for that length of time!!?! I am still waiting for the letter, then I will collect character references from friends and other supporting documents to appeal.
Posted by koban4max
- Jan 14, 2007, 03:31 AMWell...the things is she never told me that I was disqualified... She told I passed "all but one" question.
Because you said it was more of scared tactic...what would the result be? Pass? HOw was it that you didn't pass? Did you get the letter or did the poly tell you that you actually failed the test?
Because you said it was more of scared tactic...what would the result be? Pass? HOw was it that you didn't pass? Did you get the letter or did the poly tell you that you actually failed the test?
Posted by Indiana73
- Jan 14, 2007, 12:54 AMI had told them that I had drank while underage in college and been offered drugs twice, but never took any drugs myself. The examiner came back and said I was showing a problem with that question, which couldn't have been true as I said. From what I recall reading in different parts of this site, it is a common tactic.
Posted by koban4max
- Jan 14, 2007, 12:44 AMHM...interesting..i'll use this information for my police thing. Are you saying that the drug question that brought after my polygraph means 50/50 or using as scared tactic to fess up? Either way, it wouldn't matter to me because I didn't do anything beyond weed for 3 times.
Posted by Indiana73
- Jan 13, 2007, 11:03 PMNo, I did not pass, but I am pursuing the right to appeal. I was told I could by the "applicant coordinator" at the Buffalo field office where I was tested. Everyone who is initially denied a clearance is actually ENTITLED to an appeal, as described in the following section of Executive Order 12968:
"(3) informed of their right to be represented by counsel or other representative at their own expense; to request any documents, records, and reports as described in section 5.2(a)(2) upon which a denial or revocation is based; and to request the entire investigative file, as permitted by the national security and other applicable law, which, if requested, shall be promptly provided prior to the time set for a written reply;
(4) provided a reasonable opportunity to reply in writing to, and to request a review of, the determination;
(5) provided written notice of and reasons for the results of the review, the identity of the deciding authority, and written notice of the right to appeal;
(6) provided an opportunity to appeal in writing to a high level panel, appointed by the agency head, which shall be comprised of at least three members, two of whom shall be selected from outside the security field. Decisions of the panel shall be in writing, and final except as provided in subsection (b) of this section; and
(7) provided an opportunity to appear personally and to present relevant documents, materials, and information at some point in the process before an adjudicative or other authority, other than the investigating entity, as determined by the agency head. A written summary or recording of such appearance shall be made part of the applicant's or employee's security record, unless such appearance occurs in the presence of the appeals panel described in subsection (a)(6) of this section."
and also EO 10968:
"Sec. 3. Except as provided in section 9 of this order, an authorization for access to a specific classification category may not be finally denied or revoked by the head of a department or his designee, including, but not limited to, those officials named in section 8 of this order, unless the applicant has been given the following:
(1) A written statement of the reasons why his access authorization may be denied or revoked, which shall be as comprehensive and detailed as the national security permits.
(2) A reasonable opportunity to reply in writing under oath or affirmation to the statement of reasons.
(3) After he has filed under oath or affirmation a written reply to the statement of reasons, the form and sufficiency of which may be prescribed by regulations issued by the head of the department concerned, an opportunity to appear personally before the head of the department concerned or his designee, including, but not limited to, those officials named in section 8 of this order, for the purpose of supporting his eligibility for access authorization and to present evidence on his behalf.
(4) A reasonable time to prepare for that appearance.
(5) An opportunity to be represented by counsel.
(6) An opportunity to cross-examine persons either orally or through written interrogatories in accordance with section 4 on matters not relating to the characterization in the statement of reasons of any organization or individual other than the applicant.
(7) A written notice of the final decision in his case which, if adverse, shall specify whether the head of the department or his designee, including, but not limited to, those officials named in section 8 of this order, found for or against him with respect to each allegation in the statement of reasons"
You can also request a copy of all relevant documents from your case under this EO, the FOIA and Privacy Act of 1974. You want everything possible to back you up before you appeal. Get character references, etc. The following is a copy of a letter I am going to send (with names and dates removed to protect the innocent
) The top address is where you send your request to for the FBI:
David M. Hardy, Chief
Record/Information Dissemination Section
Records Management Division
Federal Bureau of Investigation
Department of Justice
935 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
Washington, DC 20535-0001
January 13, 2007
Dear Mr. Hardy,
My name is <snip>. I was until recently an applicant for a position at the FBI. I underwent a polygraph examination at the Buffalo NY Field Office of the FBI on <snip> and was subsequently denied a security clearance due to a determination of "deception indicated" on my polygraph screening. I am invoking my rights as stated in the Freedom of Information Act, the Privacy Act of 1974 and Executive Order 12968 to obtain this report and any other documents, records, and reports upon which my denial was based. I have enclosed a signed copy of DOJ Form 361, Certification of Identity, as required. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.
Good luck. I hope you pass.
"(3) informed of their right to be represented by counsel or other representative at their own expense; to request any documents, records, and reports as described in section 5.2(a)(2) upon which a denial or revocation is based; and to request the entire investigative file, as permitted by the national security and other applicable law, which, if requested, shall be promptly provided prior to the time set for a written reply;
(4) provided a reasonable opportunity to reply in writing to, and to request a review of, the determination;
(5) provided written notice of and reasons for the results of the review, the identity of the deciding authority, and written notice of the right to appeal;
(6) provided an opportunity to appeal in writing to a high level panel, appointed by the agency head, which shall be comprised of at least three members, two of whom shall be selected from outside the security field. Decisions of the panel shall be in writing, and final except as provided in subsection (b) of this section; and
(7) provided an opportunity to appear personally and to present relevant documents, materials, and information at some point in the process before an adjudicative or other authority, other than the investigating entity, as determined by the agency head. A written summary or recording of such appearance shall be made part of the applicant's or employee's security record, unless such appearance occurs in the presence of the appeals panel described in subsection (a)(6) of this section."
and also EO 10968:
"Sec. 3. Except as provided in section 9 of this order, an authorization for access to a specific classification category may not be finally denied or revoked by the head of a department or his designee, including, but not limited to, those officials named in section 8 of this order, unless the applicant has been given the following:
(1) A written statement of the reasons why his access authorization may be denied or revoked, which shall be as comprehensive and detailed as the national security permits.
(2) A reasonable opportunity to reply in writing under oath or affirmation to the statement of reasons.
(3) After he has filed under oath or affirmation a written reply to the statement of reasons, the form and sufficiency of which may be prescribed by regulations issued by the head of the department concerned, an opportunity to appear personally before the head of the department concerned or his designee, including, but not limited to, those officials named in section 8 of this order, for the purpose of supporting his eligibility for access authorization and to present evidence on his behalf.
(4) A reasonable time to prepare for that appearance.
(5) An opportunity to be represented by counsel.
(6) An opportunity to cross-examine persons either orally or through written interrogatories in accordance with section 4 on matters not relating to the characterization in the statement of reasons of any organization or individual other than the applicant.
(7) A written notice of the final decision in his case which, if adverse, shall specify whether the head of the department or his designee, including, but not limited to, those officials named in section 8 of this order, found for or against him with respect to each allegation in the statement of reasons"
You can also request a copy of all relevant documents from your case under this EO, the FOIA and Privacy Act of 1974. You want everything possible to back you up before you appeal. Get character references, etc. The following is a copy of a letter I am going to send (with names and dates removed to protect the innocent
) The top address is where you send your request to for the FBI:David M. Hardy, Chief
Record/Information Dissemination Section
Records Management Division
Federal Bureau of Investigation
Department of Justice
935 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
Washington, DC 20535-0001
January 13, 2007
Dear Mr. Hardy,
My name is <snip>. I was until recently an applicant for a position at the FBI. I underwent a polygraph examination at the Buffalo NY Field Office of the FBI on <snip> and was subsequently denied a security clearance due to a determination of "deception indicated" on my polygraph screening. I am invoking my rights as stated in the Freedom of Information Act, the Privacy Act of 1974 and Executive Order 12968 to obtain this report and any other documents, records, and reports upon which my denial was based. I have enclosed a signed copy of DOJ Form 361, Certification of Identity, as required. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.
Good luck. I hope you pass.
Posted by koban4max
- Jan 13, 2007, 06:39 PMis that mean i'll pass? DID you pass/?
Posted by Indiana73
- Jan 13, 2007, 06:17 PMHonestly, the same thing happened to me. Based off what I've read here, this is a standard "rattle" question, meant to throw off your concentration for a point of differential / comparison. I have NEVER taken drugs and told them as much and they told me the SAME thing!
Posted by koban4max
- Jan 13, 2007, 03:54 AMWell I took poly today (1-12-07).
My polygrapher told me I was consistent with everything except drug issue. I told her that I did 3 times. Afterward she told me that she'll send this information to higher up. Never asked me to do poly...
what does this mean? SHe said i"ll recieve something by 30 days.
My polygrapher told me I was consistent with everything except drug issue. I told her that I did 3 times. Afterward she told me that she'll send this information to higher up. Never asked me to do poly...
what does this mean? SHe said i"ll recieve something by 30 days.