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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by mike_C.
- May 01, 2005, 05:40 AMThat's a good point HowerdSternFan. I have first hand knowledge of friends/applicants who were disqualified just on the polygraph tests alone.
A few years ago, this one good friend of mine (who's now a cop in Arizona) tested and tested and tested for police departments in California. (All this was during the 80's) He applied to the LA County Sheriffs department, got to the polygraph stage and failed the polygraph.
Later, he told me verbatim exactly what went on behind closed doors: He said they grilled him, "they" being two deputies. They played the "good cop-bad cop" routine. They demanded that he come clean about his supposed past drug use. They said the machine told them he lied through his teeth. He admitted nothing. They said there were way to many discrepancies in his story. He still stuck to his guns in telling them he told them all they needed to know.
Bottom line: He was disqualified on the results of the polygraph tests alone, nothing to do with what he possibly added or changed during the testing. I personally don't know if there was anything more serious than occasional marijuana when he was a teenager. But the point is, they disqualified him.
This to me, is total BS. They shouldn't disqualify an applicant just because of the "results" of the polygraph tests alone which weren't to their liking. But the joke's on every department who wouldn't hire him in California. Now he's a decorated veteran street cop in a department (I won't say where) in Arizona, and has been there a number of years.
ONE THING YOU SOULD ALWAYS REMEMBER:
I realize this has probably been brought up on other threads, but consider this-
If the polygraph test is so accurate, then how come the results of a polygraph test is inadmissible in a court of law.
A few years ago, this one good friend of mine (who's now a cop in Arizona) tested and tested and tested for police departments in California. (All this was during the 80's) He applied to the LA County Sheriffs department, got to the polygraph stage and failed the polygraph.
Later, he told me verbatim exactly what went on behind closed doors: He said they grilled him, "they" being two deputies. They played the "good cop-bad cop" routine. They demanded that he come clean about his supposed past drug use. They said the machine told them he lied through his teeth. He admitted nothing. They said there were way to many discrepancies in his story. He still stuck to his guns in telling them he told them all they needed to know.
Bottom line: He was disqualified on the results of the polygraph tests alone, nothing to do with what he possibly added or changed during the testing. I personally don't know if there was anything more serious than occasional marijuana when he was a teenager. But the point is, they disqualified him.
This to me, is total BS. They shouldn't disqualify an applicant just because of the "results" of the polygraph tests alone which weren't to their liking. But the joke's on every department who wouldn't hire him in California. Now he's a decorated veteran street cop in a department (I won't say where) in Arizona, and has been there a number of years.
ONE THING YOU SOULD ALWAYS REMEMBER:
I realize this has probably been brought up on other threads, but consider this-
If the polygraph test is so accurate, then how come the results of a polygraph test is inadmissible in a court of law.
Posted by hwsternfan
- May 01, 2005, 04:47 AMJust never ADMIT to the examiner. If they fail you they fail you...just don't admit during the exam. All the exam is anyway is an EXCUSE for them to unload anyone they really don't like and have no reason to disqualify them...so they use the polyscam.
Posted by mike_C.
- Apr 28, 2005, 03:59 PMGino, it's in California.
And thanks everyone for your replies. This board has been a blessing in gaining confidence for myself and realizing that the whole polygraph procedure is nothing short of a wake up call, knowing that polygrpah tests and everything connected with it, is nothing more than "junk science."
Regards,
mike_C.
And thanks everyone for your replies. This board has been a blessing in gaining confidence for myself and realizing that the whole polygraph procedure is nothing short of a wake up call, knowing that polygrpah tests and everything connected with it, is nothing more than "junk science."
Regards,
mike_C.
Posted by G Scalabr
- Apr 28, 2005, 02:31 AMMike,
Thanks for your post to the forum.
Regrettably, yes.
Despite the complete lack of scientific proof that polygraphy has any validity in determining truth from deception in a pre-employment screening situation, applicants are disqualified constantly on the basis of polygraph chartgazing alone, without any accompanying admissions.
Some of the agencies with polygraph chart DQ failure rates at around 50% or higher include the FBI, Secret Service, LAPD, City of Phoenix PD, and Connecticut State Police.
All of the above agencies (and many more nationwide) will DQ you on the basis of an examiner's conclusion alone, even if he can't "get you to talk.
With regard to your friend's comment about POST, let us know what state you are in and we will do some research on it.
Thanks for your post to the forum.
Quote...I stick to my original story from beginning right on through the whole interrogative process, and don't cave in once, while in the meantime, the results on my test repeatedly show I'm deceptive, can I be disqualified based solely on the polygraph machines answers, or at the discretion of the polygraph examiner?
Regrettably, yes.
Despite the complete lack of scientific proof that polygraphy has any validity in determining truth from deception in a pre-employment screening situation, applicants are disqualified constantly on the basis of polygraph chartgazing alone, without any accompanying admissions.
Some of the agencies with polygraph chart DQ failure rates at around 50% or higher include the FBI, Secret Service, LAPD, City of Phoenix PD, and Connecticut State Police.
All of the above agencies (and many more nationwide) will DQ you on the basis of an examiner's conclusion alone, even if he can't "get you to talk.
With regard to your friend's comment about POST, let us know what state you are in and we will do some research on it.
Posted by Fair Chance
- Apr 27, 2005, 06:40 PMDear mike_C,
I know you are applying for a different law enforcement postition but consider this:
The FBI finds over 50% of its final applicants either "deception indicated" or "not within acceptable parameters." There are no hard and fast rules, in fact there are no rules at all. You are at their mercy, you want a job that is in their jurisdiction, and you will have no witnesses. They say you aren't good enough for whatever reason during the test, you are out.
The FBI has police chiefs from all over the United States come to its academy for "Training Sessions" which become thinly veiled opportunites for the FBI to pat itself on the back and tell everyone how great and superior they are. The chiefs go back and think if the FBI uses the polygraph, it has to be good, and thus, the boat you are in.
My money is that they can and will disqualify you for polygraph results alone, otherwise, people would argue that it is useless and you can't have anyone shouting out that the Emperor has no clothes.
Regards
I know you are applying for a different law enforcement postition but consider this:
The FBI finds over 50% of its final applicants either "deception indicated" or "not within acceptable parameters." There are no hard and fast rules, in fact there are no rules at all. You are at their mercy, you want a job that is in their jurisdiction, and you will have no witnesses. They say you aren't good enough for whatever reason during the test, you are out.
The FBI has police chiefs from all over the United States come to its academy for "Training Sessions" which become thinly veiled opportunites for the FBI to pat itself on the back and tell everyone how great and superior they are. The chiefs go back and think if the FBI uses the polygraph, it has to be good, and thus, the boat you are in.
My money is that they can and will disqualify you for polygraph results alone, otherwise, people would argue that it is useless and you can't have anyone shouting out that the Emperor has no clothes.
Regards
Posted by mike_C.
- Apr 27, 2005, 05:52 PMBut can you be disqualified on the results of the polygraph results alone? Not whether or not you choose to admit something further.
Can you be disqualified from the results of the polygraph if the answers are deemed "unsatisfactory" by the polygraph examiner, despite the fact that you stick to your guns in not revealing anything further than what he wants you to admit?
mike_C.
Can you be disqualified from the results of the polygraph if the answers are deemed "unsatisfactory" by the polygraph examiner, despite the fact that you stick to your guns in not revealing anything further than what he wants you to admit?
mike_C.
Posted by mike_C.
- Apr 27, 2005, 07:49 AMAfter reading almost every post with such intensity, there still leaves that million dollar question that I'd like answered:
If (and when ) I do take the polygraph for a pre-employment law enforcement career, (which is scheduled soon) if my answers are "unsatisfactory" based on the test, and I refuse to admit to nothing more other than what I admitted to on the pre-polygraph questionaire, can I still be disqualified through the rest of the processing for the job?
What I mean is, If, say for instance the polygraph examiner says I show a discrepancy related to a history of, say, hard narcotic use, (which I have never done, outside of marijuana) and he persists in trying to get me to "admit" to something which he somehow feels I'm hiding, and if I continue to stick to my story, as in politely reminding the examiner I've told everything I need to tell which is on the pre-polygraph questionaire, and I refuse to change my answer, or refuse to "come clean" and admit to further or more suspected possible recent drug use, can I be disqualified in the backgound processing, on his decision that my answers were not to his liking?
Another example: I've seen prostitutes on more than one occasion in the past, something I'm not proud of, I know. But in that pre-polygraph questionaire that I fill out, if I admit in writing that I sought out a prostitute some fifteen years ago or so, and have only been with a hooker two or three times in my life which wasn't recently, but a few years back while in the military, (when in reality I've been with hookers more than I care to elaborate on) yet, through the course of the polygraph test, it shows constant deception on my part in refusing to admit to more than I've cared to admit to, (and by doing so, no matter what technique of "good cop-bad cop" he uses to try and to get me to admit all) yet again, I stick to my original story from beginning right on through the whole interrogative process, and don't cave in once, while in the meantime, the results on my test repeatedly show I'm deceptive, can I be disqualified based solely on the polygrpah machines answers, or at the discretion of the polygraph examiner?
Sorry for the long-winded post, but a cop friend of mine says I cannot be disqualified solely based on polygraph tests alone, according to POST regulations. Is this true?
Thanks in advance for your assistance,
mike_C.
If (and when ) I do take the polygraph for a pre-employment law enforcement career, (which is scheduled soon) if my answers are "unsatisfactory" based on the test, and I refuse to admit to nothing more other than what I admitted to on the pre-polygraph questionaire, can I still be disqualified through the rest of the processing for the job?
What I mean is, If, say for instance the polygraph examiner says I show a discrepancy related to a history of, say, hard narcotic use, (which I have never done, outside of marijuana) and he persists in trying to get me to "admit" to something which he somehow feels I'm hiding, and if I continue to stick to my story, as in politely reminding the examiner I've told everything I need to tell which is on the pre-polygraph questionaire, and I refuse to change my answer, or refuse to "come clean" and admit to further or more suspected possible recent drug use, can I be disqualified in the backgound processing, on his decision that my answers were not to his liking?
Another example: I've seen prostitutes on more than one occasion in the past, something I'm not proud of, I know. But in that pre-polygraph questionaire that I fill out, if I admit in writing that I sought out a prostitute some fifteen years ago or so, and have only been with a hooker two or three times in my life which wasn't recently, but a few years back while in the military, (when in reality I've been with hookers more than I care to elaborate on) yet, through the course of the polygraph test, it shows constant deception on my part in refusing to admit to more than I've cared to admit to, (and by doing so, no matter what technique of "good cop-bad cop" he uses to try and to get me to admit all) yet again, I stick to my original story from beginning right on through the whole interrogative process, and don't cave in once, while in the meantime, the results on my test repeatedly show I'm deceptive, can I be disqualified based solely on the polygrpah machines answers, or at the discretion of the polygraph examiner?
Sorry for the long-winded post, but a cop friend of mine says I cannot be disqualified solely based on polygraph tests alone, according to POST regulations. Is this true?
Thanks in advance for your assistance,
mike_C.