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Posted by MissionPoly-ban
- Nov 23, 2001, 04:46 PMANONEMUS:
You state, "However, I do see your point and maybe it is more common then I think (I am such an angel)," in regards to the commonality of drinking and driving.
Let me give you a little food for thought to let you know just how common it is.
How many times have you drove past a very popular club late at night on the weekend (or even some weekdays for that matter) and seen the hundreds and hundreds of cars that young adults drove to JUST THAT particular club?
Taking that into mind, out of all the (possible thousands) people who are at that particular bar--which is only one bar representing what is going on all across America--how many people would you suspect are drinking to the point of exceeding the blood-alcohol limit (which classifies those people as being legally drunk...regardless of their state of equilibrium)?
And, taking that into mind as well, how many of the people attending the bar are actually following the governmental
advice of appointing a designated driver?
The point I am getting at is for you to realize that all those cars (millions across the US in a single night) that are sitting in that club parking lot that you pass on a particular night are all going home filled with the people in those bars that are drinking like fish...both passengers and drivers.
They swarm out of there in a flock at the point of closing time and drive in a herd in order to win the game of numbers--each buzzing like a bee. They all know that they are well over the legal limit, but more importantly, they all know that there are only a handfew of cops patrolling at night...and even fewer patrollig the route they will take home.
Do me a favor and go to a bar so that you can see what I'm talking about. You will quickly realize that drinking and driving will virtually NEVER become a relevant question. It is "the way" of the young people in America. I've seen it a million times!
Netnin
You state, "However, I do see your point and maybe it is more common then I think (I am such an angel)," in regards to the commonality of drinking and driving.
Let me give you a little food for thought to let you know just how common it is.
How many times have you drove past a very popular club late at night on the weekend (or even some weekdays for that matter) and seen the hundreds and hundreds of cars that young adults drove to JUST THAT particular club?
Taking that into mind, out of all the (possible thousands) people who are at that particular bar--which is only one bar representing what is going on all across America--how many people would you suspect are drinking to the point of exceeding the blood-alcohol limit (which classifies those people as being legally drunk...regardless of their state of equilibrium)?
And, taking that into mind as well, how many of the people attending the bar are actually following the governmental
advice of appointing a designated driver?
The point I am getting at is for you to realize that all those cars (millions across the US in a single night) that are sitting in that club parking lot that you pass on a particular night are all going home filled with the people in those bars that are drinking like fish...both passengers and drivers.
They swarm out of there in a flock at the point of closing time and drive in a herd in order to win the game of numbers--each buzzing like a bee. They all know that they are well over the legal limit, but more importantly, they all know that there are only a handfew of cops patrolling at night...and even fewer patrollig the route they will take home.
Do me a favor and go to a bar so that you can see what I'm talking about. You will quickly realize that drinking and driving will virtually NEVER become a relevant question. It is "the way" of the young people in America. I've seen it a million times!
Netnin
Posted by G Scalabr
- Nov 22, 2001, 11:48 PMQuote'Note that questions regarding drunk driving and excessive drinking are control questions.'
If the question was,'have you ever driven drunk?' it is relevant. However, if the question is 'have you ever driven under the influence of alcohol?, it is a control.
ANONEMUS,
No matter how it is worded, the question above is still a classic "control" question. Netnin is correct in his analysis that "drunk" is not carefully defined. Nonetheless, you are correct in that if you make substantial admissions to this question, you are likely to be disqualified. Once again, a polygraph "test" is actually an interrogation. The object is to get as much information from the subject as possible, regardless of how each question is classified.
Posted by beech trees
- Nov 22, 2001, 10:16 PMQuote from: ANONEMUS on Nov 22, 2001, 08:00 PM
The difference between driving drunk and driving under the influence is very obvious.
Societal norms dictate what being 'drunk' is; we all know when we are drunk.
However, some would argue driving under the influence is common and even after one drink, you are driving 'under the influence'- but not 'drunk'.
Therefore, a question regarding driving drunk is very specific and if you admit to it, I would say it would get you disqualified from a job- this would make it relevant.
However, I do see your point and maybe it is more common then I think (I am such an angel). Maybe if the question was worded in the past 3 years, have you ever driven drunk? it would become much more relevant- especially in law enforcement screening.
Gentleman,
Respectfully, I feel you're splitting hairs. The question, "Have you ever driven under the influence of alcohol?" is a universal control question. The polygrapher assumes everyone has driven under the influence-- indeed, the question is nebulous enough to cause the unwitting examinee consternation, and to therefore doubt his own sincerity and truthfulness when he replies "no".
Posted by ANONEMUS
- Nov 22, 2001, 08:00 PMThe difference between driving drunk and driving under the influence is very obvious.
Societal norms dictate what being 'drunk' is; we all know when we are drunk.
However, some would argue driving under the influence is common and even after one drink, you are driving 'under the influence'- but not 'drunk'.
Therefore, a question regarding driving drunk is very specific and if you admit to it, I would say it would get you disqualified from a job- this would make it relevant.
However, I do see your point and maybe it is more common then I think (I am such an angel). Maybe if the question was worded in the past 3 years, have you ever driven drunk? it would become much more relevant- especially in law enforcement screening.
Societal norms dictate what being 'drunk' is; we all know when we are drunk.
However, some would argue driving under the influence is common and even after one drink, you are driving 'under the influence'- but not 'drunk'.
Therefore, a question regarding driving drunk is very specific and if you admit to it, I would say it would get you disqualified from a job- this would make it relevant.
However, I do see your point and maybe it is more common then I think (I am such an angel). Maybe if the question was worded in the past 3 years, have you ever driven drunk? it would become much more relevant- especially in law enforcement screening.
Posted by MissionPoly-ban
- Nov 22, 2001, 05:14 PMAnon I'd have to disagree with you.
Questions regarding driving drunk or driving under the influence WILL virtually never be a relevant question.
How you have come to the conclusion that the terms "driving drunk" and "driving under the influence" have some great difference in meaning is beyond me.
Either driving drunk or driving under the influence can and will get you arrested (it is all a matter of blood alcohol level...one can have a blood alcohol level WAY BEYOND the legal limit, yet not feel or appear to be "drunk" at all), and the terms go hand in hand.
The people/employment agency is not going to waste one of the possible relevant questions on drinking and driving when there are so many more SIGNIFICANT issues that can be investigated.
Grant it, drinking and driving is a VERY serious issue, as it can lead to fatal car accidents and violent crimes, but police agencies, as well as nearly all law enforcement agencies are well aware of the fact that THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of people drive home every night (and even day) and never get caught. There are only so many Cops in so many places at one time. They are also aware that the majority (as in 99%) of people who drive home drunk do not ever get in accidents.
It is in this sense that agencies will never waste one of their relevant questions on drinking and driving.
Of course there are exceptions and it can happen (I could easily understand a drunk driving question being a relevant in a GLOBAL polygraph test where all the quesions are relevant and ranked), but most probable lie tests have relevants dealing with much more significant crimes, and most law enforcement agencies use the probable lie test.
Rape, dealing drugs, serious felony crimes are all examples of what agencies are truly concerned about investigating and getting admissions to...hence, relevant questions dealing with these more serious type of situations.
Hell....could you imagine all the alcoholic cops that drive home bombed late at night only to escape arrest because they have the handy badge shimmering in their wallets when the open up to get out their ID?
In truly understanding the difference between relevant and control questions, one must be able to sit down and think about the issue at hand in relation to SOCIETAL NORMS (as in the everyday crimes that most people commit and never get caught), severity of the situation (also taking into consideration societal norms, as the example of drunk driving is a serious crime but it is common and most NEVER get caught), and timespan.
Ultimately, relevants can be distinguished from the rest because they are acts that most people HAVE NOT carried out (Rape, dealing drugs, serious felonies, etc.) and are looked down upon by society in the utmost ways.
Netnin
Questions regarding driving drunk or driving under the influence WILL virtually never be a relevant question.
How you have come to the conclusion that the terms "driving drunk" and "driving under the influence" have some great difference in meaning is beyond me.
Either driving drunk or driving under the influence can and will get you arrested (it is all a matter of blood alcohol level...one can have a blood alcohol level WAY BEYOND the legal limit, yet not feel or appear to be "drunk" at all), and the terms go hand in hand.
The people/employment agency is not going to waste one of the possible relevant questions on drinking and driving when there are so many more SIGNIFICANT issues that can be investigated.
Grant it, drinking and driving is a VERY serious issue, as it can lead to fatal car accidents and violent crimes, but police agencies, as well as nearly all law enforcement agencies are well aware of the fact that THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of people drive home every night (and even day) and never get caught. There are only so many Cops in so many places at one time. They are also aware that the majority (as in 99%) of people who drive home drunk do not ever get in accidents.
It is in this sense that agencies will never waste one of their relevant questions on drinking and driving.
Of course there are exceptions and it can happen (I could easily understand a drunk driving question being a relevant in a GLOBAL polygraph test where all the quesions are relevant and ranked), but most probable lie tests have relevants dealing with much more significant crimes, and most law enforcement agencies use the probable lie test.
Rape, dealing drugs, serious felony crimes are all examples of what agencies are truly concerned about investigating and getting admissions to...hence, relevant questions dealing with these more serious type of situations.
Hell....could you imagine all the alcoholic cops that drive home bombed late at night only to escape arrest because they have the handy badge shimmering in their wallets when the open up to get out their ID?
In truly understanding the difference between relevant and control questions, one must be able to sit down and think about the issue at hand in relation to SOCIETAL NORMS (as in the everyday crimes that most people commit and never get caught), severity of the situation (also taking into consideration societal norms, as the example of drunk driving is a serious crime but it is common and most NEVER get caught), and timespan.
Ultimately, relevants can be distinguished from the rest because they are acts that most people HAVE NOT carried out (Rape, dealing drugs, serious felonies, etc.) and are looked down upon by society in the utmost ways.
Netnin
Posted by ANONEMUS
- Nov 22, 2001, 07:44 AMGino,
In your last post, you mention,
'Note that questions regarding drunk driving and excessive drinking are control questions.'
If the question was,'have you ever driven drunk?' it is relevant. However, if the question is 'have you ever driven under the influence of alcohol?, it is a control.
At least thats what I think...
In your last post, you mention,
'Note that questions regarding drunk driving and excessive drinking are control questions.'
If the question was,'have you ever driven drunk?' it is relevant. However, if the question is 'have you ever driven under the influence of alcohol?, it is a control.
At least thats what I think...