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HEY ! Can we get some ethics in here?

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Author Topic: HEY ! Can we get some ethics in here?
Ted Todd
Member
posted 07-16-2007 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Ted Todd Edit/Delete Message
This sounds like a joke but it is not:

A guy walks into a polygraph examiner's office and says "My attorney said I had to pay the $600.00 in advance-do I pay you or my attorney?"

The examiner, who does a bunch of tests for this firm, has always billed the firm at $400.00 per test. Turns out the firm has been adding 50% to the examiner's tab and billing the client.

Anyone else seen this?? How about treatment providers??

Any thoughts??

Ted

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sackett
Moderator
posted 07-16-2007 10:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sackett Click Here to Email sackett Edit/Delete Message
Yeah Ted,

it's standard business practices.

The examiner has set a price (verbal or written contract) with the client (legal firm). Then, the legal firm charges the client it's price for the test. I see no problems; except the examiner should start charging those attorney's more.

I personally do not see any ethical issues or concern regardless of the type of testing being conducted.

Jim

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stat
Member
posted 07-17-2007 09:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for stat Edit/Delete Message
Good post. I am very annoyed by the ticks who seek to consign our work----this of course does not apply to actual polygraph referral services which are charged with the specific task of referrals. I see the practice as if a muffler shop, while replacing the pipes notices that the customer needs new tires, he requires from the tire store a commission for the referral. The problems with such are taxation---the examiner is essentially paying the attorney a commission--which should be considered a cost/loss, and the attorney is doing the same tax dance by consigning a service which he should be taxed for-----much like a car consignment lot. Why can't the attorney just charge a "expert sourcing representation fee" for which he is paid to process and coordinate the information/reports in his main bill?
answer: because the attorney is a tick.

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Ted Todd
Member
posted 07-17-2007 09:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Ted Todd Edit/Delete Message
Stat

You know the attorney is doing both. He is not only marking up the cost of the test, but I am sure he is also charging his hourly rate for setting up the test in the first place.

Ted

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stat
Member
posted 07-17-2007 07:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for stat Edit/Delete Message
I have giggled to myself when an attorney's client hires me, and the attorney insists on waiting outside (for moral support?)while the test is administered-----knowing full well that he can't interrupt-----just so he can bill for 3 units while he takes clients' calls outside for double billing. ea$$$$$$y money! What a putz.

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Bill2E
Member
posted 07-17-2007 08:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Bill2E Edit/Delete Message
I do not have those problems. IF I test for an attorney, it is at my office and he is not in attendance. He can review the case with me at his office and charge his client. My charge for the review of the case facts are included in the cost of the examination. I accept cash only and charge my fee.

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Ted Todd
Member
posted 07-17-2007 09:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Ted Todd Edit/Delete Message
bill2e,

You are a wise man to only accept cash from a lawyer!

Ted

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rnelson
Member
posted 07-19-2007 09:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rnelson Click Here to Email rnelson Edit/Delete Message
It's pretty easy to throw sand at attorneys (esp. perhaps defense and corporate attys), but it would be a different culture altogether if we somehow didn't allow people a defense.

Ethics (some systems of ethics at least) is about what good or bad thing happens because of an action or decision.

Making/charging money is not per se unethical or bad. Some (even attorneys I think) would say its a good thing.

Having to pay money is neither bad nor good, its a fact of life and circumstances.

Cheating is bad because is depletes the ability of others to succeed if they deserve to succeed (earn success).

So, if we suggest this is unethical, what bad thing (bad as in diminished the quality of the client's or someone else's life) happened?

If the attorney lied to the examiner or the subject (cheated), that might be bad.

If the attorney told them two different things, is that cheating? What if they are both accuracy? What if incomplete? Is the attorney required to tell both parties everything about their financial arrangements with the other party (or all other parties)?

Seems doubtful.

The examiner gets paid the fee he wants.

The attorney makes money.

The subject pays - and that's just a fact of life and circumstances.

So, it might be sloppy. The situation may even stink.

But its unlikely to be viewed as unethical - in the philosophical and professional sense of what it means to say something is unethical.


r


------------------
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room."
--(Stanley Kubrick/Peter Sellers - Dr. Strangelove, 1964)


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Tom Kelly
Member
posted 08-03-2007 07:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tom Kelly Click Here to Email Tom Kelly Edit/Delete Message
I believe there is a problem. In CA. a attorney cannot bill for work he/she has not done. I had an idea to split the fee with attorneys to drum up business, and several told me this.

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