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SIP's

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Author Topic: SIP's
Buster
Member
posted 01-07-2008 09:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Buster Click Here to Email Buster Edit/Delete Message
Anyone else out there run only SIP's? I kicked ass in poly school and had super success early in my first department, but I have been in a slump lately. In my opinion, this is tough because I don't have the next morning pre-employment tests to stay sharp and rebound after a non-success.

For some reason-- all of the sudden-- I have been getting alot of inc's. I am really working the comparisons and I have confidence in my ability to be creative enough to properly set these controls, but some examinees just don't react to some of the controls.

Has anyone else hit a slump in their career? I was getting -27's -35's, +32's and confessions, now I am getting like +4's -8's and no confessions. It's just, like a bad string.

I guess this was more of a rant....

[This message has been edited by Buster (edited 01-07-2008).]

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Barry C
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posted 01-07-2008 09:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Barry C Click Here to Email Barry C Edit/Delete Message
+32? I've scored a lot of charts, and I might have had one that was close to a 20. Most NDI's don't climb up past those +8s.

What scoring system are you using, and what type of test are you running?

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Buster
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posted 01-07-2008 10:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Buster Click Here to Email Buster Edit/Delete Message
Nate's sofware gets up there pretty good; it takes a +/- 13 to even make it conclusive. I have gotten some +-15's and 16's by hand in the Utah 7-Point. I do use a +/-3 on the Utah, but that doesn't come into play that much. I know some don't go to +/- 3. I have less then fifty tests still.

I am running Zones. (IZCT)

[This message has been edited by Buster (edited 01-07-2008).]

[This message has been edited by Buster (edited 01-07-2008).]

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Taylor
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posted 01-07-2008 10:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Taylor Click Here to Email Taylor Edit/Delete Message
What is a SIP?

Have you had any courses by Gordon Barland on Countermeasures? Also think about rephrasing your CQ's so they are not as easily identifable. This could be one area to look at.

I have never had a +32 in my poly career. Once I had a multi issue where deception was indicated that I broke out separate because I knew she was lying and just wanted to prove a point. I had a -20 and finally an admission.

BTW, Slumps do happen. Inconclusives usually result with the Pretest or a client messing with the charts. If they are not having a reaction to a CQ my guess is you need differnt CQ's that cause some doubt. What CQ's are you using? Are they the basic 'B4 2006, dye lie to a loved one?' One thing I do is work CQ's into the pretest inbetween the Relevant issues. Look back a few posts and there were some good CQ discussions.

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stat
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posted 01-07-2008 10:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for stat Click Here to Email stat Edit/Delete Message
Yes Buster, I have experienced anomolies like those you stated (minus the high/low scores. I remember I had 4 consecutive inconclusives in 2 days. I will add that I also had a string of weird charts in my first year when I was running zones. I mean no disrespect to Baxter and the fans---but I only ran Zones for the first year because I didn't want to fumble around with question mixing ----I was a newbie and scared to venture out of my comfort zone, despite having formal training in the other formats. I experience problems with Zones. I won't venture to criticize them scientifically or otherwise, or try to poly-babble some kind of explanation. No anti-Zone whisper campaigns here. I do find the Utah Zone a marvelous creature though----and I don't even know why the name has "Zone" in it, as it is vastly different than Baxter Zones..

So yes, I myself have had short periods of time where I began to wonder if I had lost my touch.
Time to watch test videos! I know, I know....booooring. 2 hrs of humdrum boredom with one half hour of adventure. Also, buy some new shoes and some new ties.Strange remedies I know. Like in sports, sometimes there is a divine element to our work---the stars (or God's favor if you will) need to be properly alligned.

Don't be too hard on yourself. Happens to most of us.
Photobucket

[This message has been edited by stat (edited 01-07-2008).]

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Taylor
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posted 01-07-2008 10:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Taylor Click Here to Email Taylor Edit/Delete Message
One other thing you can do is go back and review your text books from Poly School. Sometimes the more you do a test the more bad habits you pick up. It helps to review the info again.

My mentor once told me when you hit 100 exams you will have a memory relapse and wonder what the hell you are doing. I sailed past 100 and at about 250 the moment hit me for about a week and I must have consulted my mentor 3-5x a day. I find talking through things makes me come up with the right answer. Can you show some of the CQ's you are using and in what type of test/issue?

Also what is a SIP? single issue polygraph?????

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Barry C
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posted 01-08-2008 06:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Barry C Click Here to Email Barry C Edit/Delete Message
quote:
I don't even know why the name has "Zone" in it, as it is vastly different than Baxter Zones

Backster came up with the "zones": the red (RQ), the green (CQ) and the black (sympt), so, if you run a question with RQs and CQs, you're running a ZCT.

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Buster
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posted 01-08-2008 07:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Buster Click Here to Email Buster Edit/Delete Message
Yes, the one scoring system presents extremely high/low results.

Donna, SIP's are specific issue polygraphs.

Stat, what technique do you do?

When I first got out of the academy my charts were cleaner, and I thought they would only get better as time went on, but maybe I am developing bad habits. I do have 88 training hours since the academy.

After 25 tests, I stopped sending my charts to my mentor. I used to call him more, too. He said they looked pretty good. Maybe I need to still send them in until this passes.

I will send in my controls later. I understand the key to the test is not only developing and shutting down controls, but also giving the controls power and making the examinee think they are as important as the R's. I think I do a pretty good job at this, but maybe I need to work further on that.

[This message has been edited by Buster (edited 01-08-2008).]

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stat
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posted 01-08-2008 08:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for stat Click Here to Email stat Edit/Delete Message
I'm gonna get wierd here.

Here are some things that presented as problems with me, that were caused by me----countermeasures are not included. Here are some rhetorical questions to ask yourself.

1. People can smell a run-down examiner. How's the office politics, the wife and kids, the personal finances? We men (especially) can practice hypostress well (ignore stress) but we tend to wear it around our neck like a garlic talon. This is a caustic (behaviorially corrisive) business. My wife hates it. She would avoid talking about it, and I only discussed it with people like you and other colleagues (thank God for that.)

Are you making an impression on your examinee's? Read about Memetics. If you want to set controls, perhaps some pointers in language construction will make them more memorable. Maybe you are projecting boredom---and your examinee's are responding negatively by perceived indifference.

Are you drinking too much java? I have to really watch my own intake as I can find myself intoxicated with it by 10am. Speed is speed---legal or not.

Take Taylor's advice---look closely at your controls. Are they contemporary and edgy enough? Many controls from say, the 70's and 80's are less effective these days as the level of behavioral candor and social acceptancesain't what it used to be.

Are you relying on your impressions in the pretest. I have found no end to the ways I can personally be fooled, and people can ---with savvy planning---put on a great display of Horse S_____. Amazing. Some are so good you distrust the charts initially. Interrogate.


Just a few self eval thoughts.

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"This is our hill and these are our beans."----
Leslie Nielsen as Lt. Frank Drebin, Naked Gun 1988


[This message has been edited by stat (edited 01-08-2008).]

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stat
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posted 01-08-2008 08:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for stat Click Here to Email stat Edit/Delete Message
Buster, I run AFMGQT, R&I, SPOT, POT, GKT and Utah Zones and BiZones (Occasionally.)

Multi-issue----AFMGQT, UTAH ZONE

Single issue-----Utah Zone, BiZone

Too many issues 4 one test----SPOT/POT and AFMGQT

Every examiner has their own flavor and algorythm (recipe.) Mine might be a little out of style.

willfarrel

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sackett
Moderator
posted 01-08-2008 02:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sackett Click Here to Email sackett Edit/Delete Message
Buster,

let's not over-intellectualize this for crying out loud, it's only polygraph... LOL

If everything worked before, now it's not, it probably IS you. But not to worry, it happens to us all.

Go back to your basics, K.I.S.S. and get smart on CM's.

Good luck,

Jim

[This message has been edited by sackett (edited 01-08-2008).]

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stat
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posted 01-08-2008 07:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for stat Click Here to Email stat Edit/Delete Message
With all due respect, I doubt there is a such thing as over-intelectualizing something that is as gravely serious as polygraph testing and potential or existing "dry spells." Maybe it's the sex offender testing talking here, but I would dye my hair green if I thought it would get more critical admissions. All I suggested was;
1. Check your domestic distress level
2. Check your workplace distress level
3. Watch 3 recent exam films--1 success, 2 disappointments.
4. Freshen up your exterior--new shoes, maybe a fresh haircut or new frames.
5. Ease up on the coffee.
6. Read previous posts about themes, memes, and compelling stories (heuristic devices)that can give you fresh interrogation ideas.


A day of testing is more a test for you than them.
Photobucket


------------------
"This is our hill and these are our beans."----
Leslie Nielsen as Lt. Frank Drebin, Naked Gun 1988


[This message has been edited by stat (edited 01-08-2008).]

[This message has been edited by stat (edited 01-08-2008).]

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Buster
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posted 01-09-2008 07:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Buster Click Here to Email Buster Edit/Delete Message
Thanx for you input guys. Stat, I already tried #4, I got new shoes, belt, and pants. In highschool, I once changed wrestling shoes in the middle of the season and credited it with turning around my season.

I do have most of my tapes and will review them.

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Taylor
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posted 01-09-2008 10:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Taylor Click Here to Email Taylor Edit/Delete Message
Buster or any other examiners - if you want a second opinion and you have your charts and video on the computer - you can send it via email to me or others on this site. Everyone here has always been more than accommodating to help other examiners. Taylor

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Buster
Member
posted 01-09-2008 10:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Buster Click Here to Email Buster Edit/Delete Message
My vids are all DVD. My charts are all hard copies until I get e-mail set up on the lafayette. I sent them out to Nelson once via fax. Watching a video is a long process, if you ever wanted to watch one- I would be glad to send it reg-mail for critique. I couldn't see anyone here wanting to do that for free.

[This message has been edited by Buster (edited 01-09-2008).]

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sackett
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posted 01-09-2008 02:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sackett Click Here to Email sackett Edit/Delete Message
stat,

With all due respect in return, I don't think my opinion was made appropriately.

We, as a profession, and this posting board in particular, have a suspicious ability to talk about things in such deep, analytical, over evaluated manner that the most simplistic issues of polygraph are gleened over without proper consideration.

I was never suggesting that polygraph was not important or serious. Of course it is. The problem in our profession that I was eluding to was the manner in which we, as a profession, tend to try to make more out of it than what it is. Self promoting grandiosity, narcissism and other "disorders" tend to run rampant within our profession and many times, well deservedly, others, not. Therefore, the probability we will find fault in ourselves is minimal.

I was suggesting that rather than have an anxiety attack about going into a slump, we self reflect on our activites, and return to the basics. You suggested several good ideas, but most examiners (probably) do not have the time, ability nor inclination to follow your advice. Simply put, if someone is in a slump, go back to what you were taught in the beginning and apply it. At best, have a similarly trained examiner you trust watch you or a tape and give their opinions.

Most, if not all of us try to get "cute" after a few months in the business because we believe we now have some sort of insight no-one else has ever had. After a period of bad habits, which have been reinforced through practice we now see as normative, we forget what we were taught in the beginning. This is when the problems and inconclusives begin in earnest.

More simply put, a new set of shoes or a haircut will not correct bad habits. One's level of domestic and professional stress or distress must be handled because the probability of changing it is slight. Film review is certainly possible but how probable; and reducing the coffee is blasphemous!

Hope that clears up my advice.

BTW, you are absolutely correct when you say, "A day of testing is more a test for you than them." But one should never develope the test, take the test and then grade oneself. Get a friend/examiner to help out, if possible.

Take care,

Jim

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stat
Member
posted 01-09-2008 03:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for stat Click Here to Email stat Edit/Delete Message
I agree with you for the most part Jim----we all need to revisit the basic of poly school. But keep in mind my background and education in Human Resources Management---and the following tips apply to ANY professional person who is having any number of issues with productivity. Allow me to translate;

1. Check your domestic distress level---explanation; The number one workforce productivity impediment is personal distress over personal issues. Marital problems, kid problems, personal finance crisis, alcoholism, sleepnessness. These issues are the poisons of the workplace. If this graphic represents your marriage;
Photobucket

.......than it will certainly have an affect on your professional life.

2. Check your workplace distress level. Explanation--- This is the number two reason for productivity problems. Department of Labor Statistics places workplace stress and professional incompatibility/ job unfulfillment as being the 2nd greatest workforce productivity problem.

3. Watch 3 recent exam films--1 success, 2 disappointments.------Explanation--Studies in HR show that Insight proves to be a great productivity boost, especially when productivity is a shared responsibility--which is rarely the case in polygraph, so we have a particularly greater responsibility to gain insight on what we do and how we do it. Watching videos will give Buster insight on what constituted him being in "the Zone" when he was making it rain confessions.


4. Freshen up your exterior--new shoes, maybe a fresh haircut or new frames.---Explanation; Who here doesn't feel like a million bucks with a new suit? Self confidence can be the greatest psychological force multiplier.

5. Ease up on the coffee.---Explanation; too much stimulant is usually taken when a person feels they need to pay greater attention to tasks, which is the opposite of what caffeine does once you pass that threshold of wakefulness and enter the ADHDesque "tweak" zone. Conversely, if you have or suspect you have ADHD and you take no meds, than keep drinking coffee by the bucket. It may just be a home version of Ritilin.


6. Read previous posts about themes, memes, and compelling stories (heuristic devices)that can give you fresh interrogation ideas. Explanation; Increasing the knowledge base gives birth to insight and new ideas. Creativity keeps the mind engaged, and in the field of psychology, puzzles and mental tasks gives the mind much needed exercise in plasticity---keeping the brain able to expand its knowledge and varieties of thinking about things (see the Nun Study--Google Nun Study). Mental expansion, like those nuns who never stopped reading and writing and listening---life puzzles---stayed sharp even with Neurological Alzheimer's well into the 100's.

------------------
"This is our hill and these are our beans."----
Leslie Nielsen as Lt. Frank Drebin, Naked Gun 1988


Photobucket

[This message has been edited by stat (edited 01-09-2008).]

[This message has been edited by stat (edited 01-09-2008).]

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sackett
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posted 01-09-2008 04:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sackett Click Here to Email sackett Edit/Delete Message
stat,

no argument from me. It would be nice to apply your suggestions...

As for the graphic, I'm trying to figure out where you got a picture of me and the wife...

Jim

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stat
Member
posted 01-09-2008 04:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for stat Click Here to Email stat Edit/Delete Message
I hear ya brother. Put red hair on her and she's my wife once a week. lol

[This message has been edited by stat (edited 01-09-2008).]

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rnelson
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posted 01-09-2008 05:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rnelson Click Here to Email rnelson Edit/Delete Message
OMB.

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