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George Mashe

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Author Topic: George Mashe
Nate Gordon
Member
posted 03-03-2009 01:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Nate Gordon Click Here to Email Nate Gordon Edit/Delete Message
What do we know as actual truth about George Masche - and does anyone know of any documentation that exists?

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Bill2E
Member
posted 03-04-2009 10:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Bill2E Edit/Delete Message
http://www.georgemaschke.net/

This is the only internet site, it is his home page. I have been unable to get information on him or his background, other than what he has on the AP site. Hope it helps for a starting point

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Taylor
Member
posted 03-04-2009 01:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Taylor Click Here to Email Taylor Edit/Delete Message
His last name is spelled: Maschke. Have you ever gone to his site? You can find anything and everything there.

On one page he writes: In July 1999, I wrote a public statement about my experience with the polygraph. At the time, I wrote under the pseudonym "Captain Jones." Much has happened since then, and I have now revised and expanded my original statement. See, "Too Hot of a Potato: A Citizen Soldier's Encounter With the Polygraph."

Here is the link for the full article -
http://antipolygraph.org/statements/statement-003.shtml

Jack Trimarco polygraphed him and he may have additional information if he is at liberty to discuss it with you.

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thenolieguy4u
Member
posted 03-05-2009 03:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thenolieguy4u Click Here to Email thenolieguy4u Edit/Delete Message
Hi All,

To add to what Taylor wrote, also Ervin Youngblood who recently retired from LAPD also gave a P.E. to Maschke for a law enforcement Intelligence Unit (Arablc and Farsi speaking) position; but he failed and was confronted by Youngblood.

To my knowledge, I don't believe that Maschke, despite being a former Intelligence Officer for the Army, was ever given a TES test; and his ONLY experience with polygraph is having failed two P.E.'s (Trimarco & Youngblood) which launched his obsession with AntiPolygraph.

I have taken him on at his website, for which he later banned me, for suggesting that his translation of The Lie Behind The Lie Detector into Arabic and/or Farsi in a time of war with radical Islam was in fact an act of Treason. I was backed up by Skip Webb and others in that argument, as a former Intelligence Officer (vs. an Infantry Officer) signs OTHER special documents in regard to the dissemination of the means, methods, and product(s) of intelligence. Maschke did acknowledge doing so, but sees this act as only at the level of an intellectual debate ((Typical PhD EggHead)), and did not see it for what it is as violating that oath, and aiding and abetting the enemies of the United States. To this day, I do not understand why his commission has not been recalled to active duty, and his being prosecuted under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, or why a U.S. Prosecutor has not had him up on charges. To my mind, he should be put against a brick wall and shot if he could be convicted of the above. He is a stench and pariah among those who have honorably served in the intelligence community.

Nobody at DoDPI / DACA seems to have an answer as to protecting this profession from such moles as Maschke, and it may rather be their experience that they have never been so well funded before with him an Antithesis threat for more research or operational development. I only know that I expected more from our collective community to deal with this Patron Saint of Child Molesters, and someone who has gone native in cohorting with the Iranian government, and other radical Islamists---- perhaps the two lowest grades in humanity. I have further never understood why some Judge somewhere has not indicted Maschke for DIRECTLY interfering with their ordered PCSOT program which Maschke seeks to directly undermine for false negative outcomes in assitance to convicted sex offenders / child molesters. Isn't that a kin to some sort of assisting a felon after the fact in furtherance of their crime, or conspiring with them as to allow them to committ further crimes in the area as they are pre-disposed to do ???

TheNoLieGuy4u@earthlink.net

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ebvan
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posted 03-05-2009 07:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ebvan Click Here to Email ebvan Edit/Delete Message
Back before Sancho Panza was banned, George denied translating his book into Arabic, Farsi, Persian, or any of the other languages natively spoken by Al Qaeda , the Taliban, or Islamist insurgents in Iraq or Afganistan.

But Sancho asked him if he ever participated in conversations or correspondance in Arabic, Farsi, Persian, or any of the other languages natively spoken by Al Qaeda , the Taliban, or Islamist insurgents in Iraq or Afganistan in which he described or explained the countermeasures described in his book; he didn't deny it.

He told Sancho it was none of his business and called poor Sancho a racist.

I agree with Sancho. It sounds like a tacit admission to providing aid and comfort to an enemy of the United States.

I believe his punishment should fit his crime. Perhaps he could be used in a research project investigating how long a human can sustain a pulse rate detectable by a polygraph cardio cuff when positioned to collect data from the cartoid arteries.

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Barry C
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posted 03-05-2009 08:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Barry C Click Here to Email Barry C Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Isn't that a kin to some sort of assisting a felon after the fact in furtherance of their crime, or conspiring with them as to allow them to committ further crimes in the area as they are pre-disposed to do ???

No. it is neither. By the time polygraph rolls around, the crime is done, so there's no "assisting" after the fact. (You're trying to argue accomplice liability, and he's not an accomplice any more than you are if you make a wrong call - which you can expect some of the time.) A conspiracy has to happen before the crime, and it requires a specific agreement between the parties.

As much as we may not like him, he has a right to free speech - even if he's an idiot. Why do we give him so much credit? The data shows that his book and advice isn't going to help anybody. If anything, he's only helping liars - and sadly, perhaps the truthful too - to fail.

Do a search on how to make a pipe bomb. Those folks are much more dangerous than GM, and most of them can't be prosecuted either - because they keep their content within the legal limits, just like GM.

It's good to know he exits, and it's good to know what he's telling people, but if you get all worked up over a blow hard, then you're letting the enemy win a battle he has otherwise lost.

[This message has been edited by Barry C (edited 03-05-2009).]

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Ted Todd
Member
posted 03-05-2009 08:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Ted Todd Edit/Delete Message
Barry is correct.

I have said it before and I will say it again. GM is the best thing that ever happened to polygraph. I keep multiple copies of TLBTLD in my office in plain view. There is also one in the waiting area/lobby. I always watch my clients when they walk in to see what catches their eye. Some are even dumb enough to comment on it when they see it. I also have copies of other CM info on display as well.
It is a clear message to my examinees that yes, I know about this stuff too.
I think all of us should check GM's site on a daily basis. Don't be surprised when you see a post by "Steven S" and severl days later have an examinee by the name of Steven Smith.

Ted

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skipwebb
Member
posted 03-06-2009 01:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for skipwebb Click Here to Email skipwebb Edit/Delete Message
Ted, I totally agree and think you are dead on point. The federal government can thank Georgie for the ACD pad, the probability calculations in new OSS-3, the required countermeasures training and annual continuing training for all federal examiners and even the research of Honts and group on the effectiveness of George's book.

Anything or anyone that forces us to look inward at ourself and what we do can only help us do a better job.

I personally love the wide eyed panic look in the eyes of many young computer savey examinees when I start to talk about the "whoopie cushion" and sometimes even mention ole Georgie's name in my pre-test.

It really makes the day go by faster.

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ebvan
Member
posted 03-06-2009 02:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ebvan Click Here to Email ebvan Edit/Delete Message
Well, Skip and Ted Based on your thoughtful reflections, I hereby nominate Dr. George Maschke Phd. as the American Polygraph Association Man of the Year in recognition of his motivational contributions to Polygraph and Polygraph Research.

{Note: any sarcasm noted in the above comment is purely intentional}

Hmm I wonder if we coud get him to pick up the award in person.

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Ex scientia veritas

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Barry C
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posted 03-06-2009 02:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Barry C Click Here to Email Barry C Edit/Delete Message
You may really be on to something....

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thenolieguy4u
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posted 03-06-2009 02:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thenolieguy4u Click Here to Email thenolieguy4u Edit/Delete Message
Barry,

I just have to believe that if a Judge were told that a Post Conviction Sex Offender under his order of treatment were directly sabotaging that treatment plan given in lieu of compliance, that this offender would be yanked from such a program. Further, that any person (Maschke) who "knowingly" assisted such an offender to NOT remain compliant in their program, would fall under comtempt of court in that jurisdiction of that judge, and be chargeable.

Freedom of speech as written in our constitution was/is oriented toward political speech, or the protection of the right to further a minority opinion. To my mind a convicted Felon does not enjoy their full civil rights in all areas; nor does freedom of speech appear to prevail when a person who is "assisting" a bona fide and convicted offender to derail judicial intent, with only the probable furtherance of their creating "future" victims from that interference. Whether Maschke's little downloadable book works or not is not my point, but rather his knowingly and directly undermining the judicial intent in sentencing, or being in contempt of the judiciary when he interacts with such felons. No surprise to Maschke, he would appear to inspire such high risk offenders for their repeating their sex crimes with the comforting thoughts he forwards that they could / would / will beat the polygraph element of their tri-phased program.

Call me a simpleton if you want to, but I'm from the wisdom of life experience on a farm. We folk don't have to be dipped in S&*t to know it stinks. Maschke stinks, and we need to provide pragmatic ideas to those prosecutors or other legal bodies who may be willing to take action on behalf of not only our profession, but for the protection of the public. Same for our imposters such as Grogan------- who claims to be doing PCSOT !!!!!!!!!!! GOD HELP THIS PROFESSION !!!

[This message has been edited by thenolieguy4u (edited 03-06-2009).]

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Barry C
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posted 03-06-2009 03:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Barry C Click Here to Email Barry C Edit/Delete Message
quote:
we need to provide pragmatic ideas to those prosecutors or other legal bodies who may be willing to take action on behalf of not only our profession, but for the protection of the public.

No. That's wrong. We don't provide pragmatic ideas. We gather evidence they need to prosecute a case, but we need to do it within the parameters of the law - not wishful thinking - or we end up being made to look like fools. Have you ever investigated a crime? You don't just throw stuff against a wall and see what sticks. You have to swear you have PC to support a real crime that you really believe you can prove, and the prosecutor has to believe he or she has a case that can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Where have you ever heard GM say to a child molester, "Go out and re-offend"? He hasn't. GM really believes that polygraphing sex offenders is more of a public safety risk than not doing so because he doesn't believe it works. (He would seem to have the NAS on his side.) Calling a person a "criminal" when you can't prove it is an element of a tort - and you'd be the defendant.

He can't be in contempt as he isn't the subject of a court order.

George is smart, and he's looking for a guy like you who thinks with his heart instead of his head. Do yourself a favor and don't become a victim. You're letting your (admirable) passion get in the way of a logical response.

Here's my challenge to you if you still think there's a crime: Find a law you think he violated and then apply those facts to the law and demonstrate that they support a conviction. Good luck, but I won't hold my breath. That's what we do every day in law enforcement. We don't just call prosecutors names or name them for doing nothing. We bring them the evidence they need to prosecute a case. If we don't have it, they don't prosecute it. If our complainants don't have any evidence, then we don't waste our time either - even if a crime was committed.

How do you know any of those people are really child molesters? You'd need to find them in order to prove anything, and even then, you're not close to a charge. Remember: some of us have made bogus posts to test GM.

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Buster
Member
posted 03-07-2009 09:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Buster Click Here to Email Buster Edit/Delete Message
Nate,

I heard that Maschke passed three polygraphs at ASIT?

...just kidding

[This message has been edited by Buster (edited 03-07-2009).]

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sackett
Moderator
posted 03-07-2009 11:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sackett Click Here to Email sackett Edit/Delete Message
ebvan,

if GM gets the award, I volunteer to pick him up at the airport...


Jim

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ebvan
Member
posted 03-07-2009 06:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ebvan Click Here to Email ebvan Edit/Delete Message
If someone picks him up at the airport I'll drop him off at Royal Gorge

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Ex scientia veritas

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skipwebb
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posted 03-09-2009 07:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for skipwebb Click Here to Email skipwebb Edit/Delete Message
Trying to make the case that George is aiding and abetting an offender would be like saying that someone who went to the NASCAR driving school and then decided to drive the get away car in a bank robbery would cuase their driving instuctor to be a partner in the crime. If your logic held water, then all of the pilot instructors who trained the 911 pilots would be in jail right now.

George is not our problem. The fact that mental and physical countermeasures can negate the efficacy of our test is the problem. We either have to get really good at countering the CMs or we need to develop a test that circumvents CMS or makes them useless.

Most diagnostic tests can be defeated or countermeasured if one wants to skew or frustrate the procedure and the resulting diagnosis. Unfortunately some of our clients have a reason to do so.

I can assure you that when the draft was in effect, we had a number of people who faked or counter measured the hearing test and the eye test in an effort to get out of the draft. If there had been an internet back then, you can bet it would have been full of CM sites telling one how to do it. Even when I was drafted, people were told through the grape vine to put a bar of soap under their arm in an effort to elevate their blood pressure??????????

I know we like to vent our frustration on George but the reality is we are angry not so much with George as we are with the limitations of what we do and the ease with which it can be frustrated.

Frustration and anger, when properly directed can create innovation. We need to channel our frustration and anger into productive change.

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wjallen
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posted 03-09-2009 05:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wjallen Click Here to Email wjallen Edit/Delete Message
It seems to me that Maschke's advice for the use of truthful CM's and the Utah technique's instructions to the subject for answering Directed Lie Questions are somewhat similiar. Do we have anything to fear from a truthful subject's use of CM?

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Barry C
Member
posted 03-09-2009 05:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Barry C Click Here to Email Barry C Edit/Delete Message
The research shows that reading GM's book will not help a liar pass (presuming an examiner knows not to score bad data); however, there is reason to be concerned that the truthful will do more harm than good, so, yes, it is a problem in that regard.

With a DLCQ you don't tell the examinee to physically augment reactions, but yes, you do tell him to do things similar to GM's mental CMs, which ought to say something.

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