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Rose
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Re: cvsa
Reply #15 - Jun 16th, 2001 at 7:35pm
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Roll EyesPlease see my new thread about my CVSA experience. I am sorry but Gino is dead wrong.  Besides another girl at work told me that her answers came out all truthful even on controlled lie questions and she is about the most unsophisticated, unmanipulative people in the world, either that or according to a CVSA examiner, she is the world's most dangerous psychopath!  Rose
  
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Nate
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Re: cvsa
Reply #16 - Jun 18th, 2001 at 5:17pm
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"Besides another girl at work told me that her answers came out all truthful even on controlled lie questions"

Rose, I advise you to go do some research and you would see the logical fallacy in your statement.  A "control question" is a question that someone lies on.  In other words, the polygraph examiner won't continue the test until he is sure you lied on the control question. He does this to compare your “lied” reaction to that of your “truthful” reaction on the relevant questions. If you did "truthfully" answer the control question then you would fail or get "inconclusive" results at best.  Go research, than come back to your conclusion then.
  

“Whoever undertakes to set himself up as judge in the field of truth and knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods" &&&&-Albert Einstein &&
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G Scalabr
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Re: cvsa
Reply #17 - Jun 18th, 2001 at 11:30pm
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I am sorry but Gino is dead wrong. 


Rose, please specifically explain exactly what you believe that I am "dead wrong" about....
  
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fred
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Re: cvsa
Reply #18 - Jul 23rd, 2001 at 3:26pm
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I need some help. I have been with the department of corrections in my state for over 10 years with no problems until recently. An ex-inspector made Captain and she and I went out together a couple of times. I was interested in someone else and after she found out she began retaliating against me. I suddenly found myself the subject of numerous investigations by her former colleagues ( inspectors ) for things that that others weren't investigated for. This occured after I filed a complaint against her for putting toothpaste on my car. A inspector she then started going out with was assigned to one of my cases. He encouraged a nurse who had an ax to grind to take a CVSA test after she cooberated an inmate's allegation that i beat and choked him. Not surprisingly, he informed me in a taunting manner that "she passed with flying colors." Unbeknownst to him, a videotape of the entire incident was in evidence somewhere else and was produced after I e-mailed the head of corrections in our state explaining this situation. The video totally refuted the allegations and it was clear i had done nothing wrong. How did she pass this test then? Now, this same inspector had three disgruntled employees take CVSA test's saying I cursed them. Guess what?!!! They passed according to his excited proclamation. I now face discipline because of the administrative rules allowing allegations to be substantiated due to results of a CVSA. I need help.
  
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Fred F.
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Re: cvsa
Reply #19 - Jul 24th, 2001 at 4:15am
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fred wrote on Jul 23rd, 2001 at 3:26pm:
this same inspector had three disgruntled employees take CVSA test's saying I cursed them. Guess what?!!! They passed according to his excited proclamation. I now face discipline because of the administrative rules allowing allegations to be substantiated due to results of a CVSA. I need help.


Fred,

You stated that you have already e-mailed the head of your agency. Did you get a reply?  You need to contact this person again and if possible, arrange to meet with them or one of their staff members.

You are being systemically made a disgruntled, problematic employee by your ex, the Captain. However, you did state that you had no "write-ups" in your file prior to you breaking it off with your friend. If all documentation on record shows you have no unfavorable problems, this needs to be brought to the attention of the administrative personnel that run the facility you work at and at the Chiefs office.

The CVSA is being used to corroborate the false statements being made against you. These people are really trying to retaliate against you and get severe disciplinary action against you  If you have noticed in other posts, the only evidence of the CVSA being "accurate" is the testing done by the MANUFACTURER!  Were these other incidents witnessed by other officers?

Have you  considered going to the Internal Affairs people in your agency? If what you are saying here is true, they will investigate and this may help clear you.

Good Luck

Fred F.  Wink
  
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fred
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Re: cvsa
Reply #20 - Jul 26th, 2001 at 6:45pm
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The internal affairs are the very people on the witch hunt of me. They are called the inspector generals office. The female captain I wrote about is a former inspector who dated the inspector on my case. He is the one who is substantiating the allegations against me based on CVSA tests. He is also pressuring witnesses according to those who have been interviewed by him. If you have any information on studies questioning the validity of these tests, please advise.
  
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G Scalabr
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Re: cvsa
Reply #21 - Jul 27th, 2001 at 12:18pm
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If you have any information on studies questioning the validity of these tests, please advise.


Fred, you will want to check out the following article from the American Bar Association's General Practice, Solo, and Small Firm Section Magazine.

CVSA:  Modern Technological Invention or "The Emperor's New Clothes"?

As this article and Fred F point out, CVSA has never shown better than coin-flip accuracy in any study other than the ones done by the manufacturer of the device.  Any reliance on CVSA results is simply foolish. End of story.

You should contact an attorney in your area knowledgeable in labor law and consider taking legal action against this department.
  
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Fred F.
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Re: cvsa
Reply #22 - Jul 28th, 2001 at 2:58am
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fred wrote on Jul 26th, 2001 at 6:45pm:
The internal affairs are the very people on the witch hunt of me. They are called the inspector generals office. The female captain I wrote about is a former inspector who dated the inspector on my case.


Fred,

This situation has so much conflict of interest, I concur with Gino. In addition to securing legal assistance, you also need to contact the director's office IMMEDIATELY!. Do you have documentation to back your statements? You already have said your "jacket" is clean after 10 years on the job.

If there are fellow officers to collaborate what is occurring you need to obtain written statements from them. Remember that documentation goes a long way in defending yourself.

Good Luck

Fred F. Wink
  
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CalifMike
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Re: cvsa
Reply #23 - Aug 29th, 2001 at 10:18pm
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???  Gino, Are you aware that the article, "CVSA:  Modern Technological Invention or 'The Emperor's New Clothes'?", is written by a polygraph examiner?

http://www.polygraphplace.com/docs/florida.htm

Quote:
Verity Consulting
PO Box 14425
Tampa, FL. 33690

Contact: Dr. John J. Palmatier
813.493.3403
School - Canadian Police College (RCMP) '83

email: palmatie@pilot.msu.edu



Nevertheless, the information is useful and helps build confidence for those facing a CVSA exam.
  
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G Scalabr
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Re: cvsa
Reply #24 - Aug 31st, 2001 at 12:42am
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Califmike,

I was actually unaware of this fact.  Thank you for pointing this out.  At the bottom of the article, Palmatier is described as a "polygraph researcher," but not as a practicing examiner.  I wouldn't be surprised if this was left out on purpose (to obscure the apparent conflict of interest).

I suppose I was fooled by the absence of the usual rhetoric touting the superiority of polygraphy.
  
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John Richards
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Re: cvsa
Reply #25 - Jan 2nd, 2002 at 4:24am
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Roll Eyes Does the CVSA have a post-test interrigation like the polygraph? I had a CVSA a few weeks ago and they was no post-test.

thanks!
  
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George W. Maschke
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Re: cvsa
Reply #26 - Jan 2nd, 2002 at 4:33am
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John,

In both CVSA and polygraph "tests," a post-test interrogation is standard procedure if the examiner believes that the subject has answered the relevant questions deceptively. The absence of a post-test interrogation in your case is a good indication that you passed your CVSA "test."
  

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John Richards
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Re: cvsa
Reply #27 - Jan 3rd, 2002 at 9:11pm
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Yes your right I passed the CVSA test! Thanks for all your info. You guys are right, this site works  Roll Eyes Maybe i'm not confident with myself, but I bet a lot of people fail the CVSA and the background detective fails you because of your background not the CVSA to not have a lawsuit. Heres what did help for the CVSA::

1) be polite and confident
2) never say anything negative
3) after you take the test relax and read a newspaper or something, I bet they watch your demeanor after the test.
4) bottom line, if the examiner does not like you you fail. End of story.
5) never disagree with the examiner they are gods when you are in there. If she asks you to bark like a dog, then you bark like a dog.
6) The examiner kept talking about her stamp collection. So I was a instant stamp collector. Tongue
  
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john richards
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Re: cvsa
Reply #28 - Jan 21st, 2002 at 2:31am
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yes I am a god! hahahah

URL Smiley Roll Eyes Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue
  
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Rescue_Ranger
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Re: cvsa
Reply #29 - Feb 10th, 2002 at 8:31am
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BINGO. . .


2)  Susceptibility to Countermeasures:  There are no known reliable ways in which an examinee can manipulate the results of CVSA to create a favorable outcome.  Polygraphy, on the other hand, is easily defeated by simple countermeasures.





We have no CVSA unit, but we're playing with an HP 4395 Spectrum Analyzer and PC DSP card, and see clear artifacts for stressed and unstressed subjects saying Yes and No.  We've digitally recorded a person artifically stressed saying "Yes" and "No", and that same person relaxed saying the same thing.  Using a PC for playback and 4 separate keys, we can play back any of the 4 answers at will.  There's no reason we can't put it in a key fob (car door opener sized audio player) and sell them. 

The 4395 can also see the higher frequencies / stress elements over a regular telephone circuit.  As long as you're doing this over the telephone, no one is going to know whether it's you or the key fob answering.  We can also get the DSP card to output just the higher frequencies, or to provide a minimum noise level of the higher frequencies to provide a lower S/N for CVSA machines. There's also no reason we can't add the higher frequencies in a key fob to activate at will.


RR
  
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