Normal Topic Has anyone renewed TS/SCI since failing LS poly? (Read 6473 times)
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Has anyone renewed TS/SCI since failing LS poly?
Mar 3rd, 2016 at 6:54pm
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Hi,

I got my TS/SCI adjudicated by the Army Reserve in April 2011. I'm up for my periodic renewal very soon.

Here's the story: I was a contractor for the NRO, which required me to pass CI poly for which I took and received a favorable result. About a year and half into my contractor life at the NRO, I came across an employment opportunity with the CIA, which required me to pass LS poly. I went for it and I received a unfavorable result, which extended to getting my access suspected at the NRO as well. I eventually lost my contractor job at the NRO.

However, it did not have any affect to my Army Reserve career. I still maintained my access to perform my MOS as an intel soldier. Now, my clearance is up for the periodic renewal. I understand that I have to say yes to the question in SF86 where it asks if I have ever been denied or suspended an access.

With that said, is there anyone who has successfully renewed his/her TS/SCI during the periodic check with a history of getting denied and/or suspended an access? Please share your story with me!  Grin
  
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Re: Has anyone renewed TS/SCI since failing LS poly?
Reply #1 - Mar 3rd, 2016 at 7:44pm
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JC:  you are confusing "access" with "clearance".  You can have a TS clearance without access to anything, and a polygraph is not required for a TS or for SCI access.  Contractors are routinely terminated for unfavorable poly results in the intell community since most contracts are contingent upon favorable poly results..  Look at your SF-86;  it will ask you if you have had a clearance revoked, not an access.  You have no reason for concern.
  
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Re: Has anyone renewed TS/SCI since failing LS poly?
Reply #2 - Mar 3rd, 2016 at 8:03pm
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Hi quickfix,

The question #25.2 in SF-86 (Revised December 2010) is as following:

"Have you EVER had a security clearance eligibility/access authorization denied, suspended, or revoked?"

The question does imply access as well as the security clearance.

However, even if this question only dealt with clearance and not access (per your words), SF-86 includes a question that asks if the applicant ever had been fired, quit after being told that s/he would be fired. I would have to answer yes to this question, and the investigators will eventually find out that the cause of the termination of my employment was due to the access suspension resulted in the unfavorable result of the polygraph.

I just want to find out if anyone has successfully renewed his/her TS/SCI after an experience of getting access denied, and/or suspended.
  
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Re: Has anyone renewed TS/SCI since failing LS poly?
Reply #3 - Mar 3rd, 2016 at 10:13pm
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quickfix, please read the following link, if possible with an open mind:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/19/AR2006061901415....

With respect to JC's story, it appears little has changed in the last 10 years.  The position of DNI was created to unify the security clearances/accesses and polygraphs across the entire IC.

Incidentally I make no distinction between "clearance" and "access."
  
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Re: Has anyone renewed TS/SCI since failing LS poly?
Reply #4 - Mar 4th, 2016 at 8:28pm
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JC:† let me clarify my earlier answer:† when I say access, I mean access to classified information in general, not specific access to specific programs;† obviously you must have the appropriate clearance to be granted access in general.† But having "access" does not entitle one to blanket access to everything and anything.† This would mean SAP programs, special projects, special programs, etc;† these are all samples above and beyond the generic "access" to routine classified information, and have their own prerequisites for access the these categories.† When Evan S makes his comment that he makes no distinction between clearance and access, he is right from that perspective.

To address your question about the SF-86, if you were notified in writing that your access to CLASSIFIED INFORMATION was suspended, you would have been told the reason, and therefore the answer to #25.2 is in fact yes.† One's "access" is never "revoked"; access is either granted or denied; clearances are revoked and/or suspended; access and clearances can be suspended, temporarily, pending adjudication of the information that caused the suspension in the first place. Again, this is a question of semantics, referring to general access to classified information.† I provide you this information having been a DOD clearance adjudicator for over 10 years prior to polygraph.

Evan S: yes, I read the article, and it is on point.† Each agency operates under its own set of rules for granting, denying, suspending, and revoking one's clearance, when they should all be operating under one central DOD umbrella.† However, one thing that does operate under the DOD umbrella is polygraph results.† Reciprocity exists between all DOD agencies and military services (unless a full scope is required, and the individual only had a CI-scope last time), then you get the full-scope.

Bottom line for JC:† yes, people get their clearances renewed every day after having failed a poly, because no adverse action can be taken based solely on unfavorable poly results;† but you can be fired as a contractor.
  
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Re: Has anyone renewed TS/SCI since failing LS poly?
Reply #5 - Mar 9th, 2016 at 11:04am
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Sort of happened to me.  I failed a CIA polygraph and was given a letter saying that my access to classified information was denied.  I get the statement of reasons from the CIA, I learn that I was denied SCI-access, and I filed an appeal...which was denied.  They failed me on the poly because they thought I was hiding information and using countermeasures.  Neither is true.  Just a year later I am granted TS clearance with SCI by someone else.  I did not have to take a poly for this SCI, just sit through a presentation and sign some forms.
  
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Re: Has anyone renewed TS/SCI since failing LS poly?
Reply #6 - Mar 9th, 2016 at 5:51pm
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Quote:
They failed me on the poly because they thought I was hiding information and using countermeasures.  Neither is true.  Just a year later I am granted TS clearance with SCI by someone else.  I did not have to take a poly for this SCI, just sit through a presentation and sign some forms.
                   


Thank you guest for sharing this information.  I too know a person who lost a job with one Federal agency solely due to a polygraph only to be hired by another.  Both jobs required the same clearance.  Logically, this could not happen if the failed applicant was truly a "threat to national security".  It just goes to prove what an absolute joke the current polygraph protocol represents.   A joke with catastrophic consequences for lots of innocent people.
  
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Re: Has anyone renewed TS/SCI since failing LS poly?
Reply #7 - Apr 11th, 2016 at 11:24am
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quickfix wrote on Mar 3rd, 2016 at 7:44pm:
JC:† you are confusing "access" with "clearance".† You can have a TS clearance without access to anything, and a polygraph is not required for a TS or for SCI access.† Contractors are routinely terminated for unfavorable poly results in the intell community since most contracts are contingent upon favorable poly results..† Look at your SF-86;† it will ask you if you have had a clearance revoked, not an access.† You have no reason for concern.


Just don't forget that the CIA is a law unto itself in matters of personnel, clearances, and access.   Even holding a TS/SCI clearance at another federal agency means nothing at all to the nice folks at Langley. Tongue
  

What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security
and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac?† †A great beginning!

The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
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Re: Has anyone renewed TS/SCI since failing LS poly?
Reply #8 - Mar 22nd, 2021 at 11:01pm
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I have a similar question. I failed a polygraph for the cbp a few years ago. Iím also in the military reserves and nothing happened to my clearance. Iím in the process of renewing my clearance and filling out an sf86. Do I need to worry about this? Also, do I need to put that I failed a poly on my sf86 for the military?
  
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Re: Has anyone renewed TS/SCI since failing LS poly?
Reply #9 - Mar 23rd, 2021 at 10:59am
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You do not need to be concerned.  The SF-86 does not ask if you ever took a polygraph.
  
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Re: Has anyone renewed TS/SCI since failing LS poly?
Reply #10 - Mar 23rd, 2021 at 2:27pm
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Do I need to put on the 86 that I was investigated by the cbp?
  
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Re: Has anyone renewed TS/SCI since failing LS poly?
Reply #11 - Mar 23rd, 2021 at 3:09pm
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No.  It was part of a preemployment application, not for  clearance.
  
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Has anyone renewed TS/SCI since failing LS poly?

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