I obviously have broken little rules such as being on the internet when I'm not allowed to and have a phone my PO doesn't know about and quite honestly, I've read the book and still feel like I'm gonna fail. My question is if I fail a poly graph test can they send me back to jail? and do I answer control questions honestly such as have you ever stole anything? and relevant questions like have you been on the internet lately dishonestly? Just need some advice most likely won't help but thanks anyways.

Quote:

You seem to be asking us to abet you in breaking the terms of your probation and helping you to lie to your PO or to a judge.  Under these circumstances we cannot help you.

A great counter-polygraph activist and trainer, Doug Williams, was recently persecuted by a rogue bureau of the U.S. government for being popular and effective.  Unfortunately he unwisely did exactly what you are asking us to do.  This gave his powerful enemies the leverage to impose a conviction and send him to jail.

Every corrupt politician knows that if someone is engaged in activity X and it's legal but you don't like it, you accuse and convict him of illegal activity Y -- but you tell the press that the indictment was for X.  In Doug's case X is polygraph countermeasure training and Y is conspiring and abetting lying to due authorities.

Nobody here wants to be the next Doug Williams.

-Aunty Agony.

Aunty Agony wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 7:34pm:



What a bunch of hypocrites you all are.  You all offer your advice to those unqualified applicants for all the 3-letter agencies who want to beat the system, and your sympathy to those who didn't, but you're not willing to offer advice to convicted sex offenders, those of probation/parole, and criminal suspects who have to undergo polygraph testing?  What bullshit.  You do it every day on this site.  You just don't know who it is you're helping.   

As for Doug, he was prosecuted, not persecuted.  And he pled guilty because he was guilty.

quickfix, my personal view is that if anyone has a need to lie on a polygraph exam that they should not submit to polygraph testing. 

Regarding teaching of countermeasures, I at one time, didn't dream that such activity would be illegal. I always thought that there should be a counterpoise to all things. But obviously such is not the case. 

To think that the users of this forum are a crack team of countermeasure experts poised to usurp the justice system is fantasy. I personally would never entertain the thought.

Yes, occasionally false positives occur, the vast majority of which are in the screening arena.  It's not 100%, but it is also not as antipolygraph types claim "little better than a coin flip".  Lives "ruined"? No, that's bullshit.  No one is "entitled" to government employment or a security clearance.  They are privileges, not rights.  If you don't get hired, your life is not ruined.  You find another job and move on.  

You anti types claim to help those who want to ensure they pass a preemployment poly, then claim you won't help a sex offender pass with the use of CMs.  How noble.  How naïve also, to think that visitors to this site who are rapists/child molesters/sex offenders will not use what they learn here.  Let ME ask YOU a question, one that I have asked George twice with no response:  how would you feel if a rapist successfully used CMs he picked up from this site or from Doug Williams to pass a criminal poly, and the victim of that rape was your wife/daughter/sister?  How would you like it then?

quickfix: you are confusing "entitlement" with "right."

Yes, no one is entitled to a government job or a security clearance, but the applicant has the right to be rationally evaluated for the position.

If you allow the use of junk science polygraphy, why not employ voice stress, astrology or palmistry?  The CVSA has been advertised as being 1/3 cheaper than the polygraph.  Maybe the positions of the planets and stars at the time of the applicant's birth to determine eligibility for employment and clearance.  Just think of all the potential savings of money if background investigations were to be eliminated.

quickfix wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2015 at 5:41pm:


Military officers and people of commensurate background have earned the right not to have their integrity challenged unless there exists specific information that they are dishonest.  Specific as in evidence stronger than a polygraph.   You must be insane if you think that someone who has prepared his or her life for a profession in law enforcement or the military can find any type of commensurate employment anywhere else after being blacklisted by the polygraph.  From CIA Case Officer to managing a McDonalds ?  Is that what you mean ?  Lawyer and judges aren't entitled to bar membership either.  Why don't we polygraph them and take away their entitlement to practice law if they don't pass ?  You may say that national security is too important.  Most of our security leaks, however, come from the privileged few who are so high up they aren't threatened by the polygraph.  What hypocrisy.  The mere fact that there are people in our national security apparatus who get access and aren't held accountable to the same standards (our new royalty) means the entire polygraph program is a joke.   

I'll gladly answer your above question.  If a rapist successfully used CMs to pass a polygraph and then raped my wife/daughter/sister,  I would be even more Anti-Polygraph than ever before.  I wouldn't hold one thing against Doug Williams but I would despise the stupid cops that relied on a polygraph instead of using old-fashioned, proven police work.  

Polygraphers make a living collecting easy stats without having to prove anything while honest cops are busting their butts working day and night to make real cases.  

Evan S wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2015 at 7:05pm:


In my own experiences, at least, there was certainly no such rational decision-making.  Getting through the BI appears to me to be entirely a matter of chance and luck (which in my case was lacking), not at all related to the applicant's qualifications or abilities!