Hot Topic (More than 15 Replies) new to Texas SOTP Polys questions (Read 11728 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box fupolys
Guest


new to Texas SOTP Polys questions
Apr 4th, 2015 at 2:01pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Hello everyone, long story short I was put on misdemeanor probation, A condition was get a SO eval, but didnt have to register as a SO. Ofcourse the therapist and Polygrapher want to get paid so Im in the SOTP on a fn misdeminor! Dont worry I am talking to a lawyer to try to get off of it. Have taken two polys One with my lawyer. (inconclusive) One in probation i guess instant offense?(false positive) Same polygraph Its a small town, and he travels here. Of course him and the therapist are tight.

Went to some groups and now they want me to take another one, instant offense I guess.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box fuploys
Guest


Re: new to Texas SOTP Polys questions
Reply #1 - Apr 4th, 2015 at 2:08pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I have read The Lie, and the Sting, Should one try the anal sphincter contraction? if you are setting on a pad?. Its a bad idea right? risky? Is it the consensus that Mental imagery and tounge biting are the best? and of course  breathing control? I guess Im asking what had been more successful for people, mental imagary or biting? And is it bad to do both on control questions? Is it over kill? Thanks,
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6230
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: new to Texas SOTP Polys questions
Reply #2 - Apr 4th, 2015 at 3:09pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
I have read The Lie, and the Sting, Should one try the anal sphincter contraction? if you are setting on a pad?. Its a bad idea right? risky?


As you'll note in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, we advise against employing the anal sphincter contraction as a countermeasure.

Quote:
Is it the consensus that Mental imagery and tounge biting are the best? and of course  breathing control?


Yes.

Quote:
I guess Im asking what had been more successful for people, mental imagary or biting? And is it bad to do both on control questions? Is it over kill? Thanks, 


There is no data available on which to base an answer to your question. Combining mental imagery and tongue biting might be overkill, but then again, it might not. In any event, if I were to employ polygraph countermeasures, I would choose mental imagery (such as solving a math problem) and produce breathing reactions to the control questions (slower or more shallow breathing, not deeper), as described in Chapter 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box fupolys
Guest


Re: new to Texas SOTP Polys questions
Reply #3 - Apr 4th, 2015 at 5:03pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Thanks for the information George, I will definitely review Chap 3 and 4 and practice. Since, I took tests with the same polygrapher, i think I got a feel what the control questions are. DLCT. He told me to lie on s question, (Did you ever tell a lie ever in your life?) directed lie 
But he did ask,( Regarding the issue at hand today, do you intend to tell me the truth?) Thats most likely sacrifice relevant correct? 

And is it judt me ?, Doesnt  giving too many polys to a person, like long timers probationers/parolees in the SOTP a bad idea. Seems like the more you take the less intimidated, desensitized and better prepared, ie fine tuning CM's one would become, There was a guy in my group that dais he has taken 90!!!.

I think its a bad idea for SOTP therapists to use these as a gauge of treatment progress. Thoughts?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Ex Member
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 710
Joined: Dec 9th, 2012
Re: new to Texas SOTP Polys questions
Reply #4 - Apr 5th, 2015 at 4:08am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
There was a guy in my group that dais he has taken 90!!!.


Sounds embellished to me. My personal take on TLBTLD is to educate and learn to protect oneself against a potential false positive. Like all useful information, it can be also be used in more sinister ways. I encourage you to seize this opportunity to be positive about the treatment and learn to make better choices diverse from those which resulted in your current pickle.

An argument can be made against the efficacy of using the polygraph as part of the sex offender containment programs. But, habit has shown, that they do not want to give up the "24 hour tail" despite the uncertain reliability of it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6230
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: new to Texas SOTP Polys questions
Reply #5 - Apr 5th, 2015 at 7:12am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
Thanks for the information George, I will definitely review Chap 3 and 4 and practice. Since, I took tests with the same polygrapher, i think I got a feel what the control questions are. DLCT. He told me to lie on s question, (Did you ever tell a lie ever in your life?) directed lie 
But he did ask,( Regarding the issue at hand today, do you intend to tell me the truth?) Thats most likely sacrifice relevant correct?


Correct.

Quote:
And is it judt me ?, Doesnt  giving too many polys to a person, like long timers probationers/parolees in the SOTP a bad idea. Seems like the more you take the less intimidated, desensitized and better prepared, ie fine tuning CM's one would become, There was a guy in my group that dais he has taken 90!!!.


No, it's not just you. Professor of psychology Chris French raised similar concerns in a 2012 commentary published in The Guardian. Apart from probationers/parolees becoming less intimidated by the polygraph and learning countermeasures, there is the additional concern that polygraphy has no scientific basis to begin with. Retired FBI scientist and polygraph expert Dr. Drew Richardson has also weighed in against polygraph screening of sex offenders, as have I.

See also Professor Jeffrey W. Rosky's article, The (F)utility of Post- Conviction Polygraph Testing (PDF) and his address at a 2012 skeptics' conference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BybrnNyAkHg
 
Quote:
I think its a bad idea for SOTP therapists to use these as a gauge of treatment progress. Thoughts?


I think it is malpractice for any treatment provider to rely on polygraph chart readings for any purpose.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box fupolys
Guest


Re: new to Texas SOTP Polys questions
Reply #6 - Apr 5th, 2015 at 4:51pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Thanks for the links/references George, I agree with you.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Ex Member
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 710
Joined: Dec 9th, 2012
Re: new to Texas SOTP Polys questions
Reply #7 - Apr 9th, 2015 at 1:19am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
George W. Maschke wrote on Apr 5th, 2015 at 7:12am:
I think it is malpractice for any treatment provider to rely on polygraph chart readings for any purpose. 


You got off easy on this one George, quickfix and others must be on vacation.  Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Joe McCarthy
God Member
*****
Offline


Tiocfaidh ár lá

Posts: 526
Location: The Shroud of The Foggy Dew
Joined: Mar 25th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: new to Texas SOTP Polys questions
Reply #8 - Apr 14th, 2015 at 7:43am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
If you have a lawyer, have your lawyer subpoena the charts and score sheets.  It takes just a few minutes to print charts and about a bucks worth of paper, so it is not a big bother to print them, though I suspect you will get one hell of a fight to get those charts.

I'm also going to point out, that you may want to check your probation conditions in regard to internet access; just want to throw that out there.  Some counties are militant about this condition and would certainly get you an MTR in a heartbeat.

I have to admit though, I am very curious as to what company this examiner is employed. 
  

Joe
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box fupolys
Guest


Re: new to Texas SOTP Polys questions
Reply #9 - Apr 16th, 2015 at 6:34am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I dont have any condition's against using the internet, I havent been scheduled for a new Poly yet, Yes now that Im a abit more educated on Polys now, I would like to see that charts, seems like any polygrapher could say, looks like you failed this questions, let me add a bunch of numbers together and show you. woah it adds up to 9's!
Lets see what the software says now, whoops, and show you the screen, that says deceptive, I mean wouldn't that stuff be easy to bluff? He also only ran 2 charts he could use, Dont they need to run three charts?
Finally and this is the kicker, He was my polygrapher when I used my defense lawyer, when I got a inconclusive.
The same polygrapher told the therapist, I had taken the before!
I think he  possibly broke his attorney client privilege. I confronted the Therapist about that. She said I signed some releases, I dont think, I remember one waiving attorney client privilege. Im waiting to hear back from my lawyer, I definitely want another polygrapher next time, if needed. If you PM me ill give you the polygraphers name to anyone interested. Thanks
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6230
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: new to Texas SOTP Polys questions
Reply #10 - Apr 16th, 2015 at 9:54am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
If you PM me ill give you the polygraphers name to anyone interested.


Other users of the message board can PM you only if you create an account on this message board (or provide an alternative means of communication).
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box fupolys
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 9
Joined: Apr 16th, 2015
Re: new to Texas SOTP Polys questions
Reply #11 - Apr 16th, 2015 at 6:12pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
George W. Maschke wrote on Apr 16th, 2015 at 9:54am:
Other users of the message board can PM you only if you create an account on this message board (or provide an alternative means of communication).


Ok Gentleman, I am now registered, if one wants to PM me they can. George you have any thoughts about my experience I mentioned about the two charts, bluff, and attorney client privilege possible breech? Thanks
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box fupolys
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 9
Joined: Apr 16th, 2015
Re: new to Texas SOTP Polys questions
Reply #12 - Apr 23rd, 2015 at 4:19pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I was wondering if any one had any input to my post last week? Do polygraphers usually run three charts to form their opinions? Its it acceptable to run just two? Do they use bluff tactics? and my lawyer is looking into the possibility of the polygrapher breaking attorney client privilege, maybe not coincidentally, they have been so nice to me after i confronted the therapist about that, and haven't as of yet been scheduled for a poly? 

Also Irish, check for a PM from me. Thanks, Guys
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6230
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: new to Texas SOTP Polys questions
Reply #13 - Apr 24th, 2015 at 11:38am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
fupolys wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 4:19pm:
I was wondering if any one had any input to my post last week? Do polygraphers usually run three charts to form their opinions? Its it acceptable to run just two?


According to pp. 31-33 of the Texas Joint Polygraph Committee on Offender Testing's Recommended Guidelines for Clinical Polygraph Examinations of Sex Offenders, at minimum three chart collections should be conducted (two "primary" series and one "mixed" series, in which comparison questions are rotated).

Quote:
Do they use bluff tactics?


Yes.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box fupolys
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 9
Joined: Apr 16th, 2015
Re: new to Texas SOTP Polys questions
Reply #14 - Apr 25th, 2015 at 1:30pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
George, Thanks for the link to the handbook, that was a very good reference.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
new to Texas SOTP Polys questions

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Change Text Color
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X