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Topic Summary - Displaying 19 post(s).
Posted by: Joe McCarthy
Posted on: Apr 29th, 2015 at 6:58pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
It's a difficult system to navigate.  Only one person makes the final decision in regard to navigating it successfully; you.  Having said that, there are some who have a vested interest in setting you up for failure, like anything in this world.  You need to be aware of these kinds of people and combat them properly.

Your biggest enemy you have non compliance with terms and conditions; only you make that decision.  I wish you the best of luck in it.  Having said that, DTA and CYA

And yea, again, the examiner in question is a good guy. I've never heard of one bad thing coming out of his office.
Posted by: fupolys
Posted on: Apr 29th, 2015 at 3:45am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Thanks, For the Info Joe, and can respect you opinion of the man, Im just trying to educate myself and not be played. You saying his trustworthy makes me feel somewhat better if he tests me again, but at the this point with the A/C. He might not even test me? Idk

Cheers
Posted by: Joe McCarthy
Posted on: Apr 28th, 2015 at 11:36pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Oh, one last thing.  The examiner you used is a good man so far as I know.  I have never heard of anything wrong of unethical come from that direction.

He is not one of the examiners I have on my "do not trust list."  I have always had the impression that is was a straight shooter.  As far as I know, he is someone who is square in his actions.

That is only my take of him though.  I know you don't like him very much right now; but I will stand up for people I have known to do the right thing in the past just as soon as I will stand against those who are wrong.
Posted by: Joe McCarthy
Posted on: Apr 28th, 2015 at 11:28pm
  Mark & Quote
fupolys wrote on Apr 16th, 2015 at 6:34am:
I dont have any condition's against using the internet, I havent been scheduled for a new Poly yet, Yes now that Im a abit more educated on Polys now, I would like to see that charts, seems like any polygrapher could say, looks like you failed this questions, let me add a bunch of numbers together and show you. woah it adds up to 9's!
Lets see what the software says now, whoops, and show you the screen, that says deceptive, I mean wouldn't that stuff be easy to bluff? He also only ran 2 charts he could use, Dont they need to run three charts?
Finally and this is the kicker, He was my polygrapher when I used my defense lawyer, when I got a inconclusive.
The same polygrapher told the therapist, I had taken the before!
I think he  possibly broke his attorney client privilege. I confronted the Therapist about that. She said I signed some releases, I dont think, I remember one waiving attorney client privilege. Im waiting to hear back from my lawyer, I definitely want another polygrapher next time, if needed. If you PM me ill give you the polygraphers name to anyone interested. Thanks


As far as if he broke A/C privilege, I can't speak to that as I am not an attorney.  I can say that I have been in the same situation as an examiner in the past, and I have never talked with a therapist or a PO about tests done under privilege even if there is a waiver from the therapist or CSCD unless the attorney who paid for the test releases the information as well.  That is just CYA.

As far as the examiner running two charts; two charts minimum is all that is needed to render an opinion in the State of Texas.  Three charts is strongly recommended and prudent.  I will say that sometimes, that third chart won't make all that much a difference if you mathematically overwhelmingly failed in the first two charts. 

The computer algorithms are a nice tool, but sometimes not entirely as accurate as we would like them to be.  It's the handscore that is the deciding factor.  If the computer matched the handscore, bonus. 

Now, if you are with Tarrant County CSCD, ask your PO for the "approved polygraph examiners list."  You have a right (or you once had a right) to choose an examiner from that list.  If they tell you no such list exists, they are lying to you.

It is also important to point out that JPCOT is not law in Texas, they are as TAPE and the State of Texas points out, "guidelines." The JPCOT Guidelines only have teeth to the people who follow the guidelines.  Having said that, JPCOT regulates the sex offender polygraph industry in the State of Texas.  This is problematic to say the least, because JPCOT has no licensing authority.

Bottom line, if you knew the truth about how all this really runs, you'll wish you had picked prison.

Oh and if you're African American, I would be very concerned about being treated fairly by some examiners in Texas.  But that is a discussion for another time.
Posted by: fupolys
Posted on: Apr 25th, 2015 at 1:30pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
George, Thanks for the link to the handbook, that was a very good reference.
Posted by: George W. Maschke
Posted on: Apr 24th, 2015 at 11:38am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
fupolys wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 4:19pm:
I was wondering if any one had any input to my post last week? Do polygraphers usually run three charts to form their opinions? Its it acceptable to run just two?


According to pp. 31-33 of the Texas Joint Polygraph Committee on Offender Testing's Recommended Guidelines for Clinical Polygraph Examinations of Sex Offenders, at minimum three chart collections should be conducted (two "primary" series and one "mixed" series, in which comparison questions are rotated).

Quote:
Do they use bluff tactics?


Yes.
Posted by: fupolys
Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2015 at 4:19pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
I was wondering if any one had any input to my post last week? Do polygraphers usually run three charts to form their opinions? Its it acceptable to run just two? Do they use bluff tactics? and my lawyer is looking into the possibility of the polygrapher breaking attorney client privilege, maybe not coincidentally, they have been so nice to me after i confronted the therapist about that, and haven't as of yet been scheduled for a poly?

Also Irish, check for a PM from me. Thanks, Guys
Posted by: fupolys
Posted on: Apr 16th, 2015 at 6:12pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
George W. Maschke wrote on Apr 16th, 2015 at 9:54am:
Other users of the message board can PM you only if you create an account on this message board (or provide an alternative means of communication).


Ok Gentleman, I am now registered, if one wants to PM me they can. George you have any thoughts about my experience I mentioned about the two charts, bluff, and attorney client privilege possible breech? Thanks
Posted by: George W. Maschke
Posted on: Apr 16th, 2015 at 9:54am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Quote:
If you PM me ill give you the polygraphers name to anyone interested.


Other users of the message board can PM you only if you create an account on this message board (or provide an alternative means of communication).
Posted by: fupolys
Posted on: Apr 16th, 2015 at 6:34am
  Mark & Quote
I dont have any condition's against using the internet, I havent been scheduled for a new Poly yet, Yes now that Im a abit more educated on Polys now, I would like to see that charts, seems like any polygrapher could say, looks like you failed this questions, let me add a bunch of numbers together and show you. woah it adds up to 9's!
Lets see what the software says now, whoops, and show you the screen, that says deceptive, I mean wouldn't that stuff be easy to bluff? He also only ran 2 charts he could use, Dont they need to run three charts?
Finally and this is the kicker, He was my polygrapher when I used my defense lawyer, when I got a inconclusive.
The same polygrapher told the therapist, I had taken the before!
I think he  possibly broke his attorney client privilege. I confronted the Therapist about that. She said I signed some releases, I dont think, I remember one waiving attorney client privilege. Im waiting to hear back from my lawyer, I definitely want another polygrapher next time, if needed. If you PM me ill give you the polygraphers name to anyone interested. Thanks
Posted by: Joe McCarthy
Posted on: Apr 14th, 2015 at 7:43am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
If you have a lawyer, have your lawyer subpoena the charts and score sheets.  It takes just a few minutes to print charts and about a bucks worth of paper, so it is not a big bother to print them, though I suspect you will get one hell of a fight to get those charts.

I'm also going to point out, that you may want to check your probation conditions in regard to internet access; just want to throw that out there.  Some counties are militant about this condition and would certainly get you an MTR in a heartbeat.

I have to admit though, I am very curious as to what company this examiner is employed.
Posted by: Ex Member
Posted on: Apr 9th, 2015 at 1:19am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
George W. Maschke wrote on Apr 5th, 2015 at 7:12am:
I think it is malpractice for any treatment provider to rely on polygraph chart readings for any purpose. 


You got off easy on this one George, quickfix and others must be on vacation.  Smiley
Posted by: fupolys
Posted on: Apr 5th, 2015 at 4:51pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Thanks for the links/references George, I agree with you.
Posted by: George W. Maschke
Posted on: Apr 5th, 2015 at 7:12am
  Mark & Quote
Quote:
Thanks for the information George, I will definitely review Chap 3 and 4 and practice. Since, I took tests with the same polygrapher, i think I got a feel what the control questions are. DLCT. He told me to lie on s question, (Did you ever tell a lie ever in your life?) directed lie
But he did ask,( Regarding the issue at hand today, do you intend to tell me the truth?) Thats most likely sacrifice relevant correct?


Correct.

Quote:
And is it judt me ?, Doesnt  giving too many polys to a person, like long timers probationers/parolees in the SOTP a bad idea. Seems like the more you take the less intimidated, desensitized and better prepared, ie fine tuning CM's one would become, There was a guy in my group that dais he has taken 90!!!.


No, it's not just you. Professor of psychology Chris French raised similar concerns in a 2012 commentary published in The Guardian. Apart from probationers/parolees becoming less intimidated by the polygraph and learning countermeasures, there is the additional concern that polygraphy has no scientific basis to begin with. Retired FBI scientist and polygraph expert Dr. Drew Richardson has also weighed in against polygraph screening of sex offenders, as have I.

See also Professor Jeffrey W. Rosky's article, The (F)utility of Post-Conviction Polygraph Testing (PDF) and his address at a 2012 skeptics' conference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BybrnNyAkHg

Quote:
I think its a bad idea for SOTP therapists to use these as a gauge of treatment progress. Thoughts?


I think it is malpractice for any treatment provider to rely on polygraph chart readings for any purpose.
Posted by: Ex Member
Posted on: Apr 5th, 2015 at 4:08am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Quote:
There was a guy in my group that dais he has taken 90!!!.


Sounds embellished to me. My personal take on TLBTLD is to educate and learn to protect oneself against a potential false positive. Like all useful information, it can be also be used in more sinister ways. I encourage you to seize this opportunity to be positive about the treatment and learn to make better choices diverse from those which resulted in your current pickle.

An argument can be made against the efficacy of using the polygraph as part of the sex offender containment programs. But, habit has shown, that they do not want to give up the "24 hour tail" despite the uncertain reliability of it.
Posted by: fupolys
Posted on: Apr 4th, 2015 at 5:03pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Thanks for the information George, I will definitely review Chap 3 and 4 and practice. Since, I took tests with the same polygrapher, i think I got a feel what the control questions are. DLCT. He told me to lie on s question, (Did you ever tell a lie ever in your life?) directed lie
But he did ask,( Regarding the issue at hand today, do you intend to tell me the truth?) Thats most likely sacrifice relevant correct?

And is it judt me ?, Doesnt  giving too many polys to a person, like long timers probationers/parolees in the SOTP a bad idea. Seems like the more you take the less intimidated, desensitized and better prepared, ie fine tuning CM's one would become, There was a guy in my group that dais he has taken 90!!!.

I think its a bad idea for SOTP therapists to use these as a gauge of treatment progress. Thoughts?
Posted by: George W. Maschke
Posted on: Apr 4th, 2015 at 3:09pm
  Mark & Quote
Quote:
I have read The Lie, and the Sting, Should one try the anal sphincter contraction? if you are setting on a pad?. Its a bad idea right? risky?


As you'll note in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, we advise against employing the anal sphincter contraction as a countermeasure.

Quote:
Is it the consensus that Mental imagery and tounge biting are the best? and of course  breathing control?


Yes.

Quote:
I guess Im asking what had been more successful for people, mental imagary or biting? And is it bad to do both on control questions? Is it over kill? Thanks, 


There is no data available on which to base an answer to your question. Combining mental imagery and tongue biting might be overkill, but then again, it might not. In any event, if I were to employ polygraph countermeasures, I would choose mental imagery (such as solving a math problem) and produce breathing reactions to the control questions (slower or more shallow breathing, not deeper), as described in Chapter 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.
Posted by: fuploys
Posted on: Apr 4th, 2015 at 2:08pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
I have read The Lie, and the Sting, Should one try the anal sphincter contraction? if you are setting on a pad?. Its a bad idea right? risky? Is it the consensus that Mental imagery and tounge biting are the best? and of course  breathing control? I guess Im asking what had been more successful for people, mental imagary or biting? And is it bad to do both on control questions? Is it over kill? Thanks,
Posted by: fupolys
Posted on: Apr 4th, 2015 at 2:01pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Hello everyone, long story short I was put on misdemeanor probation, A condition was get a SO eval, but didnt have to register as a SO. Ofcourse the therapist and Polygrapher want to get paid so Im in the SOTP on a fn misdeminor! Dont worry I am talking to a lawyer to try to get off of it. Have taken two polys One with my lawyer. (inconclusive) One in probation i guess instant offense?(false positive) Same polygraph Its a small town, and he travels here. Of course him and the therapist are tight.

Went to some groups and now they want me to take another one, instant offense I guess.
 
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